Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kohana (web framework) (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Salvio Let's talk about it! 12:54, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Kohana (web framework)
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log )

Nootability/references concern did not improve since the first nomination and notability/ref tags are ignored. The text is solely based on author's documentation i.e "single-source". NOtability is not proven. Effectively, wikipedia is a promotional vehicle for this tool. Lorem Ip (talk) 17:25, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete and salt. First deleted in 2008 via Articles for deletion/Kohana (Web Framework), and again in 2010 after a no-consensus AFD in 2009. The other AFDs all show a complete lack of sourcing beyond self-published, unreliable sites, and no valid assertation of notability. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 20:42, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 19:55, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Save Again? Kohana is much more than just a pet project, and since the last deletion Kohana has gained a published book. This page should be retained. Sam de Freyssinet — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samsoir (talk • contribs) 10:57, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Only lazy does not release a e-book about their project. Lorem Ip (talk) 19:15, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That is a print book, not just an e-book, so that criticism seems mute. IanBarber (talk) 21:11, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have updated the content to meet the points raised, better references and citations. This page now feels more balanced than a number of the other PHP framework pages, which I may add are not up for deletion! Also note that Rasmus Lerdorf (the creator of PHP) is an avid user of Kohana, writing about it on his blog and the PHP internals list (referenced in the page). If that is not notoriety I really don't know what you're looking for? (Sam de Freyssinet) 09:55, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I concur in the notability, especially with the addition of sources produced by Rasmus Lerdorf. The popularity, notoriety and knowledge of Kohana has only increased since the first (and second) AfD and there are now a number of significant references CaveyCoUk (talk) 10:58, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree also that the cited favourable discussions of Kohana by PHP creator Rasmus Lerdorf establishes notability very clearly along with other references. The Kohana 3.0 book is also a significant source. This page compares very well to the other listed pages on PHP Web Frameworks, a number of which are of much lesser quality. Zeebinz (talk) 11:45, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:01, 29 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete The only reliable source could be the "Kohana 3.0 Beginner’s Guide" but it is unreleased. Moreover, also if it was available (but it is unreleased), it's only 1 reliable source, while it's established that we need multiple reliable sources. So we currently lack the notability requirement, when the book will be released and there will also be another reliable source (another book, an article on a proper magazine etc.) I'm going to change my opinion. At the moment, it's a "delete". ekerazha (talk) 07:27, 29 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Save To expand on my earlier point, PHP creator Rasmus Lerdorf is a well-known critic of PHP web frameworks, but has singled out Kohana as an example of best practice given its unique architecture, design and the other features described on this page. As the references make clear, Lerdorf uses Kohana himself, which clearly establishes notability within the context of PHP. Zeebinz (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:10, 1 August 2011 (UTC).


 * Delete - Lacks the significant coverage in independent reliable sources to meet Wikipedia's inclusion guidelines. -- Whpq (talk) 16:37, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.