Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kowloon Dairy (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. ✗ plicit  10:49, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Kowloon Dairy
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

I am a representative of the company, regard the company as non-notable, and that we want the article to be deleted. Chocoolate Milk (talk) 01:47, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Business and Hong Kong. Primefac (talk) 10:59, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Admin note I have created this AFD based on a failed attempt by to do so (see Special:Diff/1089670273). Personally, since I withdrew the previous nomination after a very brief time, I do not see this as an unreasonable request (even if it is doomed to failure), but if an uninvolved administrator feels that this is an inappropriate re-nomination I will not be opposed to a speedy close. Primefac (talk) 11:01, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 11:06, 25 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment Is there any verification that the nominator is a representative of the dairy? I would have some increased likelihood of supporting the delete request if I understood the motivations better - i.e. if there was a privacy issue or something and if I knew this was a bona fide request from the organization CT55555 (talk) 13:59, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It is a bona fide request. Primefac (talk) 14:33, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Are you able to share anything about the motivation? i.e. is there any sort of privacy issue or something comparible? CT55555 (talk) 14:37, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * There are no privacy issues as far as I am aware; unfortunately I cannot really say much more than that, though of course is welcome to say more. There were also some accuracy concerns, but as far as I am aware those have been cleared up. Primefac (talk) 14:50, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * In this 01:26, 12 May 2022 (UTC) edit, wrote, "the information contained in this page is inaccurate and not completed, as a representative of Kowloon Dairy, we prefer deleting the page rather than confusing the netizen". In this 11:48, 25 February 2022 (UTC) edit,  changed some company establishment dates and wrote, "Fixed the facts to be accurate. Facts were provided by Margot Ahwee, the daughter of George Ahwee and last living tensing descendant of the founder George Ahwee". In this 02:46, 10 April 2022 (UTC) edit,  wrote, "Added factual information by the grandson of the original founder and owner George Ahwee - David Lewis". These changes were reverted. I encourage the company's representatives to make edit requests at Talk:Kowloon Dairy explaining how the page is "inaccurate and not completed" (and backing their requested changes by independent reliable sources) as suggested by Conflict of interest instead of editing the article directly or nominating the article for deletion. Cunard (talk) 12:22, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep Many mentions in the South China Morning Post about the company and products. Discussed in law journals, . It's a well-established company, almost 100 yrs old. Oaktree b (talk) 15:16, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. The company has stood in Hong Kong since 1940. Almost every person in Hong Kong knows this company to some extent/ has tried its products. If there is anything inappropriate (e.g. privacy issues), the related paragraphs can be deleted, but not the whole article. Sun8908 &#8239;Talk 02:03, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The article notes: "九龍維記牛奶有限公司自一九四 0 年起,維記牛奶大事記殿堂級品牌南美歸僑 George Ahwee 及本港長大的業餘騎師蔡永禧創辦了. 大馬主李蘭生先生投入資本,擴大業務,成為今天的「九龍維記牛奶有限公司」. 李氏家族是今日「維記 11941 牛奶」的最大股東及公司決策人. 「維記牛奶」一直伴隨著香港人成長,不經不覺已有六十六年歷史,細看這品牌誕生至發展,仿如閱讀香港早期風物誌. 單是公司命名過程也饒富趣味,南美歸僑 George Ahwee 及本地長大的業餘騎師蔡永禧先生創辦了「九龍維記」. 「維記」這名字竟是源自 George Ahwee 的廣東話暱稱「阿維」,因當時人人愛以「維記」稱之以示親切,再加上當年牧場位於九龍清水灣道,於是「九龍維記」便成了公司的名字了. " From Google Translate: "In 1940, Kowloon Dairy Co., Ltd. was founded by George Ahwee, a South American returned overseas Chinese, and an amateur jockey who grew up in Hong Kong. The Malaysian owner Mr. Li Lansheng invested capital to expand the business and become today's "Kowloon Wei Kee Milk Co., Ltd.". The Li family is the largest shareholder and company decision maker of today's "Kowloon Dairy". "Kowloon Dairy" has always been growing up with Hong Kong people. It has a history of 66 years without realizing it. A closer look at the birth and development of this brand is like reading an early history of Hong Kong. The naming process of the company alone is also very interesting. George Ahwee, a returned South American, and Mr. Choi Wing-hee, an amateur jockey who grew up locally, founded "Kowloon Wei Kee". The name "Wei Kee" was actually derived from George Ahwee's Cantonese nickname "Awei", because at that time everyone loved to call it "Wei Kee" to show affection, and the pasture was located on Clear Water Bay Road in Kowloon, so "Wei Kee" "Kowloon Victoria" became the name of the company."  The book notes: "另一生產商——九龍維記成立於1940年,宗旨是為本地市民供應牛奶,由於其鮮奶只供應九龍北部,因而得名. 及後因添加另一本地人股東,更易名為九龍維記牛奶有限公司. 當時的牧場位於現彩雲村的位置,路經清水灣道時,可在路旁看到一個由水泥倒模做成的大型牛奶瓶,這正是維記的地標. 在1972年,政府宣布收地興建公屋,牛場有21萬平方呎,乳牛數目有300至400頭,而現代化設備的改良也自此開始. 到了1984年,基於環保要求、土地發展需求增加以及中國市場的開放等因素,維記將牛場全面遷至廣州. 但其在新界大生圍,近現錦繡花園的位置仍設置牛奶廠房,繼續生產. " From Google Translate: "Another manufacturer, Kowloon Dairy, was established in 1940 with the aim of supplying milk to local citizens. It was named after its fresh milk only supplied to the northern part of Kowloon. Later, due to the addition of another local shareholder, the name was changed to Kowloon Wei Kee Milk Co., Ltd. At that time, the ranch was located in the current location of Caiyun Village. When passing Qingshui Bay Road, you could see a large milk bottle made of cement pouring mold by the roadside, which is the landmark of Wei Kee. In 1972, the government announced the resumption of land to build public housing. The cattle farm had 210,000 square feet and the number of dairy cows was 300 to 400. The improvement of modern equipment has also begun. In 1984, due to factors such as environmental protection requirements, increased demand for land development, and the opening of the Chinese market, Kownloon Dairy fully relocated the cattle farm to Guangzhou. However, it still has a milk factory in Tai Sang Wai, New Territories, near Fairview Garden, and continues to produce." Less significant coverage and passing mentions:  The article notes: "香港华润万家公共处就表示在华润万家集团超市内所售鲜奶均为香港本土品牌，“品牌有维记、牛奶公司、十字牌、维他”，她也说从销售角度来看最受欢迎的鲜奶品牌还是属于维记牛奶，这间1940年成立的牌子全称为九龙维记牛奶有限公司，是香港的一间鲜牛奶及奶制品的制造商，专为香港本地市民供应鲜奶，不少港人从小喝到大，是它的忠实粉丝. " From Google Translate (my bolding): "The public office of China Resources Vanguard in Hong Kong stated that the fresh milk sold in the supermarkets of China Resources Vanguard Group are all local brands in Hong Kong. She also said that from a sales perspective, the most popular fresh milk brand is still Wei Kee Milk. The brand established in 1940 is called Kowloon Wei Kee Milk Company Limited. , many Hong Kong people drink it from childhood to adulthood and are loyal fans of it."  The article notes from Google Translate: ""Wei Kee" emphasizes that its products are "100% made in Hong Kong every day", but according to its official website, they collect raw milk from farms in Guangdong every day, and send it to the Tunnel factory for "Bard disinfection" and "" It is a matter of opinion whether it is really "Made in Hong Kong" after being homogenized and then packaged." <li> The article reviews an ad about Kowloon Dairy.</li> <li> The article notes: "The Kowloon Dairy, whose farm is at Ngauchiwan in Kowloon, behind Kai Tak airport, lost its entire herd of 100 cows during the war. Its new pasteurisation plant looted in the war has now been replaced and is in working order."</li> </ol></li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Kowloon Dairy to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 12:22, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Dear All,
 * For verification, I can send you an e-mail with my company domain. Also, heare are the reasons why we want the article to be deleted.
 * The existing page contains the following false information or half-truth about Kowloon Dairy.
 * 1.    The Kowloon Dairy was founded by Ms. Margot Ahwee’s father, Mr. George Ahwee, in 1902.
 * 2.    The company expanded after an owner of a horse, Mr. Li Lan Sang, joined the company many years afterwards
 * 3.    The Kowloon Dairy continued to be owned by the Ahwee Family until it was sold in 1975 to the remaining partner.
 * We would like to clarify that:
 * 1.    Kowloon Dairy was incorporated in Hong Kong on 21 March 1940.
 * 2.    Mr. George Emanuel Ahwee was a former director of our client, he was a minority shareholder until 1 April 1977.
 * 3.    Since about 1975, Kowloon Diary’s operation and businesses are managed by the family of the late Mr. Li Lan Sang who is our client’s majority shareholders.
 * 4.    The late Mr. Li Lan San was the owner of over 40 horses primarily in Hong Kong.
 * By showing images of Kowloon dairy products and making references to the copyright materials extracted from our website in the Wikipedia page named “Kowloon Dairy”, the creator/owner of the said Wikipedia page is deliberately misleading the public the public into believing that he publication of the said Wikipedia page was authorized by our client and/or the said Wikipedia page is related to and /or associate with Kowloon Diary.
 * The false pretenses have damaged our reputation. Chocoolate Milk (talk) 03:22, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Errors are not a reason to delete. Errors are a reason to correct. Please provide sources to support the correct data and I am sure someone will fix it quickly. Also if there is copyright issues, please tell us where and someone will probably edit it very quickly.  The idea that the page is authorised by the dairy is an erroneous conclusion that could only be reached by someone who doesn't understand Wikipedia rules. Pages are never authorised or controlled by the subject, as you are presumably currently painfully learning. CT55555 (talk) 03:27, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The false pretenses have damaged our reputation. Chocoolate Milk (talk) 03:22, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Errors are not a reason to delete. Errors are a reason to correct. Please provide sources to support the correct data and I am sure someone will fix it quickly. Also if there is copyright issues, please tell us where and someone will probably edit it very quickly.  The idea that the page is authorised by the dairy is an erroneous conclusion that could only be reached by someone who doesn't understand Wikipedia rules. Pages are never authorised or controlled by the subject, as you are presumably currently painfully learning. CT55555 (talk) 03:27, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

</li></ul>
 * As I mentioned earlier, points 1-3 of the "wrong information" have already been dealt with. Primefac (talk) 12:12, 31 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep. Comments above confirm that the motivation to delete is corporate-reputation based, not privacy based. Notability is demonstrated. CT55555 (talk) 03:30, 30 May 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.