Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Krestianstvo SDK


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. by clear consensus that this does not (yet) meet Wikipedia's notability requirement. JohnCD (talk) 22:27, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Krestianstvo SDK

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Just WP:PROMO of none-notable software, written by the software's developer in an obvious WP:COI. bender235 (talk) 12:33, 16 February 2011 (UTC)  Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:49, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions.
 * Delete: a concept of virtual learning environment for mathematics; also as collaborative, highly portable, end-user/programmer framework for building-then-exploring rich multimedia discs on art... Not sure if this is actually about software, if the article says it's about a "concept".  - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 15:57, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep: ''
 * 1) Krestianstvo SDK - is a Software and not a "concept" - look here (http://vimeo.com/14910620). More, it is Open Source and working software (could be downloaded here http://www.krestianstvo.org/sdk/Krestianstvo1.2.zip)
 * 2) It has a number of unique features, like integration of Seaside (software) and Croquet Project; the multiuser collaborative version of Jeffrey Weeks (mathematician) Curved space explorer software developed by me in Smalltalk (as example of virtual learning environment); (TUIO/Kinect support in Croquet Project (look for the reference at http://www.tuio.org/?software);, XUL/CSS user interface; ect.
 * 3) As I am Russian, the most of published papers and projects has been done in Russia (look at Projects page from 2006-2010). NikolaySuslov (talk) 23:23, 22 February 2011 (UTC) — NikolaySuslov (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:14, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Very sorrowfully, NikolaySuslov (talk) 12:20, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: If there are citations in the russian language that show notability, those who are voting to keep this should add the citations to the article rather than simply claiming that they exist. Guy Macon (talk) 08:01, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep : Looks like it is quit easy to delete/close the very new appearing Open source software, wich poses a really threat to a commercial applications. The only arguments of 'Deleters' are: 'this is none-notable software written by it's author, it is a spam, promo, concept' ect. But, all these 'well-known arguments' are just null and dirty. Moreover, users who nominate the articles about software for deletion are even not from technical specialties! (bender235 - is majoring in business and economics). Again and again, I'll repeat: Krestianstvo SDK is working software, anybody could download it and run (check video demos http://vimeo.com/14910620 or try it by yourself). It would not be called 'Krestianstvo SDK' and I would not decided to write the Wikipedia article, if this software hasn't it's own quit unique features. Check some of the urls for notability in Smalltalk community:
 * http://astares.blogspot.com/2009/09/krestianstvo-sdk-russian-smalltalk.html
 * http://squeakingalong.wordpress.com/2010/07/29/croquet-in-squeak-4-1/
 * http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2010/InnovationTechnologyAwards/Submissions
 * Just because I'm an economics student doesn't mean I'm not allowed to judge notability of any other topic. Wikipedia is not an encyclopedia for technical specialists. --bender235 (talk) 11:41, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * struck double !vote OSbornarfcontribs. 07:06, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 *  Weak Delete Delete: I searched for evidence of notability a second time and found none. All online cites lead to the authors blog. I also note that the author (of the Wikipedia page and of the software) has voted "keep" in this afD twice so far (the only keep votes so far), but rather than adding citations to the article showing notability as requested, assumes bad faith and attacks other editors, as seen below. Guy Macon (talk) 04:13, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: Hey, The history knows not only just 'deletions', but even 'burnings', like Giordano Bruno who was burned at the stake by civil authorities in 1600. Don't think that any citations to his really working computing model could helped him to avoid the burning, moreover don't think they even been existed at his time. Science - is not a social network, and the Truth could not be determined just by voting, citation's calculation, ect. NikolaySuslov (talk) 02:45, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Posted WP:AGF warning on User talk:NikolaySuslov. - Guy Macon (talk) 03:56, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Note: Here, in this concrete list of Software-related deletion discussions, we discuss the concrete really existing software, as artifact with it's own history 2006-till now: Krestiasntvo SDK. Nevertheless, arguments of 'Deleters' are none constructive, abstract, applicable to nothing. There is no any chance to be sure that 'Deleters' are real users and not just a spam-bots. If you claim something like COI problems, massive promotional,  ect., please, confirm it by providing real statements to the incorrect source, that could be founded in the Krestianstvo_SDK article (text, images, links).NikolaySuslov (talk) 10:27, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete disregarding the obvious and massive promotional and COI problems, there appears to be a complete lack of coverage in reliable, third party sources. What few mentions are listed in the article only verify it exists (or are small blog posts), not that it has any notability. OSbornarfcontribs. 07:14, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Posted WP:NPA warning on User talk:NikolaySuslov. - Guy Macon (talk) 16:09, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

NikolaySuslov (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:53, 10 March 2011 (UTC).
 * Reply this discussion is not about whether the software in question exists, but whether it meets Wikipedia's notability criteria- one of the main criteria for being included here. As for your conflict of interest issues, it is quite clear you are associated with the software product. OSbornarfcontribs. 18:26, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Reply The history of Krestiasntvo SDK has started in 2006. And it's intensive life till now has accompanied by a lot of projects, being built on it: Igrishe installation (Russia, Moscow), several multimedia discs on art (Russia, State Tretyakov gallery Moscow), CCSE virtual learning environment (virtual museum), Man'j (Moscow, Art strelka), Multitouch table (Russia, Vologda) and more. Encyclopedic wikipedia's article is right about the software technology (Krestianstvo SDK here) hidden behind all these projects and just only.NikolaySuslov (talk) 20:25, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Reply All of those sources are from your blog. The notability guidelines call for reliable, third party sources. OSbornarfcontribs. 20:59, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Reply check these links below:
 * http://web.archive.org/20071213061211/http://www.opencroquet.org/index.php/Current_Projects#Croquet-Based_Realtime_Art_Installation (Croquet project site is on reconstruction for now).
 * http://julianlombardi.blogspot.com/2009/07/seaside-and-comet-control.html
 * http://www.arseniev.org/content/?s=52&a=80 (On Russian language at the end of the page: "Программное обеспечение «Крестьянство / Игрище»")
 * http://www.tretyakovgallery.ru/ru/museum/publication/multimedia_editions/
 * Reply Nikolay, try to understand why we do things this way. Would you like a Wikipedia full of spam and advertising? That's what we would have if we allowed anyone to write a page and base it on nothing other than blog posts they themselves wrote. If that was allowed, everybody who works in marketing or public relations would create dozens of worthless Wikipedia pages every day so they could get free advertising. The rules about notability are not just some stupid rules, and they were not created to hurt you.  They are good rules.  They are rules that make sense. I strongly suggest that you read the rules and follow the rules instead of ignoring the rules and attacking other editors who follow the rules. Guy Macon (talk) 00:38, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Reply Spam, advertising!? You are joking? Who have allowed you to take such abstract dicisions? Where are your concrete arguments, I have asked for? Again, be concrete and please, do not attack this "list of Software-related deletion discussions", with spam. Look at the bottom of the Krestianstvo SDK article, where you could find just one, two, three and four server platforms for 3D virtual worlds (OpenSimulator · Open Wonderland · Open Cobalt · Solipsis). Krestianstvo SDK - is the fifth platform. And where are your "dozens of worthless Wikipedia pages" concerning to 3d virtual worlds and software technologies related to virtual learning environments? And nor reading nor following the rules here, could not help to you. "No matter, the Earth is still rotates..." NikolaySuslov (talk) 14:05, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Subject lacks significant coverage in reliable secondary sources. Can't find anything on GNews.--> Gggh  talk/contribs 17:47, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Reply So, for example, if Sputnik_1 would not have been founded in the news in 1957, there would not be Sputnik_1 as artifact in the history, which is known by all? Or, you think, that Wikipedia is the encyclopedia completly based on the news and public relationships, which are often represent distorted sources. The article Krestianstvo SDK is about an artifact beeing appeared in the history of software. NikolaySuslov (talk) 20:58, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Reply Yes. (Although the time when Sputnik was covered is not important). If nobody anywhere documented or covered Sputnik 1, we wouldn't care. Wikipedia articles do not have to be completed based off of news reports- academic journals, etc are all fine sources and can establish notability, but the sources must meet the reliable source policies. No such coverage exists for this piece of software- its existence alone does not grant it inclusion in Wikipedia. OSbornarfcontribs. 21:18, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.