Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Krewe of Orion


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus; default to KEEP. - Philippe 19:49, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Krewe of Orion

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I WP:PRODded this article about a Mardi Gras crew for lack of notability. The PROD was contested with comment: "all MG crews are probably N." I disagree. As it stands, this is a local club with 300 members. Many such clubs exist (even when restricting to Mardi Gras, Carnival, Fastnacht etc. groups) and they would certainly not automatically pass WP:ORG, in the absence of some truly convincing secondary sources. However, I found only some mentioning in the local press, and directory-style announcements. B. Wolterding (talk) 18:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment It's almost all behind pay gates, but with ~90 sources I'd think there has to be something with which to build an article. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 18:49, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * From the summaries, it seems like what I saw on Google web search: mentions in the local press (The Advocate, Baton Rouge), and many directory-style announcements. --B. Wolterding (talk) 18:57, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * comment I hope there's more to say about it from the press mentions. But I notice its not the New Orleans MG, so I'm not sure about significance. I notice that particular Mardi Gras does not have an article of its own, so quite possibly the individual components might not yet be notable. Best solution problably is to use this as a start for an article on it. DGG (talk) 20:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Laissez les bon temps roulez! (That's the Cajun equivalent of Keep) As per Cari's comments - the notability can be confirmed. Ecoleetage (talk) 14:55, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete Only a decade old and from a city where most of the people drive the 45 minutes to New Orleans for Carnival. With some more secondary sources maybe but as it stands they are too new and not notable enough. L0b0t (talk) 15:19, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Local press is no less reliable then regional press, and New Orleans being a major city, I wouldn't go so far as to quantify it as "local" my self. MrPrada (talk) 08:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, neither this group nor the newspaper which reported about them are located in New Orleans. --B. Wolterding (talk) 08:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The Advocate, source of the 90 stories about the group listed above, is the primary newspaper of Baton Rouge (another major city) has a New Orleans bureau ["The paper maintains bureaus throughout south Louisiana as well as in Washington, D.C."], and is obviously notable enough for its own Wikipedia article. MrPrada (talk) 21:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Which does not mean that everything the paper writes about is notable. See further below. --B. Wolterding (talk) 15:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment The krewe in question is not based in New Orleans. And there are Mardi Gras celebrations outside of New Orleans, too. --Ecoleetage (talk) 07:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment That, I think, is a good point. The Krewe in question is from Baton Rouge.  The Baton Rogue Mardi Gras celebration merrits only passing mention here.  Whereas NOLA and even Mobile have their own articles.  This Krewe is only 9 or 10 years old and from a city who's celebration is eclipsed by the Mardi Gras in NOLA just 45 minutes away.  Baton Rouge Mardi Gras and its Krewes are just not notable enough for inclusion into the encyclopedia. L0b0t (talk) 10:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment There is no requirement that an event needs to take place for X number of years before it is considered notable. Few events rival the New Orleans Mardi Gras, so the argument that Baton Rogue cannot measure up to it is a chalk-and-cheese comparison. --Ecoleetage (talk) 11:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's not the point. As it stands, we have here a local club that was covered in the local press (that's part of the business of the local press isn't it). Every city has a plethora of such clubs - carnival clubs, sports clubs, whatever -, and they would typically not pass the notability criteria. Things might be different if this were a group of the New Orleans Mardi Gras, since that one is world famous; but that's merely hypothetical since this club is based in Baton Rouge. --B. Wolterding (talk) 15:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Just as an FYI: Baton Rouge is the capital of Louisiana. We are not talking about a small town club, but an annual event in a capital city. I have difficulty understanding the attempts to marginalize the city, its media and this event. --Ecoleetage (talk) 11:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The idea that Baton Rogue and The Advocate are non-notable is far-fetched, and while I could see this topic being not notable if it had received minor coverage, 90 articles is not minor. MrPrada (talk) 12:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think anyone is trying to marginalize the Baton Rouge carnival, it's just that the Baton Rouge celebration has done nothing to distinguish itself. It is eclipsed by the NOLA celebration 45 minutes away.  My assertion is that FIRST Baton Rouge Mardi Gras should be written, with a list of Krewes, then expanded into Krewe articles if warranted.  We don't have articles for all the NOLA Krewes or all the Mobile Krewes or Galveston and these cities were celebrating Carnival centuries before Baton Rouge.  Yes The Advocate is a local paper.  The Miami Herald, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Cleavland Plain Dealer, New Orleans Times Picayune, Tallahassee Democrat are ALL local papers, that is not a value judgment on their journalistic ability, it is a reflection of their circulation, coverage area, and readership.  When the Baton Rouge Carnival is notable enough for its own article then we can discuss articles for their individual Krewes.  Cheers. L0b0t (talk) 13:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * What do you say about having L0b0t pour some Hurricanes while I get out my guitar and play Iko Iko? :) Ecoleetage (talk) 20:55, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * One can often find me on upper Decateur St. enjoying neat Bourbon whiskey. Or at the Maple Leaf Bar watching the Rebirth Brass Band.  Cheers. L0b0t (talk) 21:03, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Move to Baton Rouge Mardi Gras and expand. Not convinced that the notability of this Krewe has been established but could certainly be well covered as part of an article on the Baton Rouge Mardi Gras. Davewild (talk) 19:07, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.