Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Krishn Charan


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 21:34, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Krishn Charan

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Chess players are normally given articles only if they have international titles, FIDE arena titles for online play are not inherently notable. Quale (talk) 19:32, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Chess players come to FIDE Online Arena for the official FIDE-recognised international ratings and titles. AGM is an international title. It is an internationally notable title provided by FIDE. AGM is the HIGHEST and most notable international title in FIDE Online Arena. Many top chess players play in FIDE Online Arena to achieve titles. AGM title can be obtained by winning against many high rated players. It is not easy for everyone to get titles like AGM from FIDE Online Arena. Only the best of the chess players can get AGM title. Arena titles are visible in FIDE profile. AGM title held by any coach and a player is a significant fact of the professional excellence in chess career. In this pandemic of COVID-19, FIDE Online Arena platform helped the chess players hugely around the world as they were unable to travel worldwide to play the chess tournaments. So, FIDE Online Arena platform has scored above OTB in this situation. It also saves huge time and money. Reference: www.chessarena.com Speedyking5 (talk) 12:52, 18 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:51, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete No notability as a chess player or a coach; fails WP:NCHESS and WP:GNG. Note the article uses phrases such as "represented" and "played in," he does not appear to have won any significant tournaments.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 21:08, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Krishn Charan is a notable chess player and coach. He has played for India in Asian Junior Chess Championship 2016. He also played for India in Commonwealth Chess Championship 2018. In these prestigious tournaments, everyone cannot participate. Only the best and selected players of the country can participate. AGM is the HIGHEST and most notable international title in FIDE Online Arena. AGM title held by any coach and a player is a significant fact of the professional excellence in chess career. Reference: www.krishncharan.com shows the huge achievements of the students of Krishn Charan as a notable coach, including 1st Position in US Open S-U-1000 in August 2021. Bio-data of Krishn Charan shows his professional excellence as a notable coach and a player in chess career by a young person. Reference: www.krishncharan.com Speedyking5 (talk) 12:52, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: In December 2021 national rank among active Indian players is 2824, when including inactives it is 14441 (https://ratings.fide.com/profile/25021753). Online chess has been very important during the global pandemic, but there are plenty of online tournaments that offer the opportunity to compete against strong players with over-the-board titles such as International Master.  If Krishn becomes notable as a chess player in the future then an article can be created then, but I don't think it's time for this yet.  Quale (talk) 22:47, 18 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Offline/OTB (Over the Board) tournaments held by FIDE has 3 formats – Standard, Rapid and Blitz. FIDE Online Arena has 3 formats – Bullet, Blitz and Rapid. Each format of OTB and FIDE Online Arena has their own rankings. One chess player can have different rankings in the respective formats he has played. Holder of AGM title means that the player is among the top ranking in FIDE Online Arena. Anyone who has an understanding of chess, knows that AGM is the HIGHEST and most notable international title in FIDE Online Arena. Also, serious chess players know that FIDE Online Arena is the OFFICIAL (by FIDE) and most AUTHENTIC platform for online chess which offers opportunity to compete against strong and top players having both FIDE Online Arena and OTB high rankings. Any chess player having AGM title is a notable chess player and any notable chess player can create an article. Reference: www.chessarena.com. Reference: www.krishncharan.com Speedyking5 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 13:12, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Just stating that "any chess player having the AGM title is notable" doesn't make it so in Wikipedia terms. You have to show significant coverage in reliable sources. Where is this coverage? (his website doesn't count).-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 19:12, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Looking at our article on FIDE titles which you linked, it states that Arena titles are intended for players in the lower rating band and that should a player with an arena title gain an over the board FIDE title, this title replaces their arena title. In other words, the title is for a weaker standard than International Master, FIDE Master and even Candidate Master, and we generally do not have articles on players with those titles unless they are notable for some other reason.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 16:32, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note the details about AGM (Arena Grand Master) Krishn Charan – “Significant coverage in reliable sources”. First, go through the references (6) already given in the article (“significant coverage in reliable sources”) – 1.	 "About". Krishn Charan. 2.	^ "Asian Junior Chess Championship". The Times of India. Retrieved 5 May 2016."Asian Junior Chess Championship". Indian Sports News. Retrieved 6 May 2016. 3.	^ "FIDE Online Arena - Titled Players". 2019-02-28. Archived from the original on 2019-02-28. Retrieved 2021-08-19. 4.	^ "Thailand Chess Festival - Open 2019 | ChessPrime". chessprime.com. 5.	^ "1st Thailand Chess Festival 2019". yumpu.com. 6.	^ "Internet Chessbase". www.ichessbase.com. Second, go through – “Archived” link given at reference 3 – https://web.archive.org/web/20190228142636/https://arena.myfide.net/ratings-and-titles/titled-players/. It has the “List of players who obtained their FIDE Online Arena Title”. In it, name of AGM Krishn Charan is given. Third, go through the link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIDE_titles. In it, go through the topic – “Arena Titles”. It clearly shows the “Arena Titles” till January 2020. It shows that there are 392 men + 3 women = 395 AGM TITLE HOLDERS AROUND THE WORLD. It also states that “Arena Grandmaster (AGM) is the highest online title. It is achieved by a series of 150 bullet games, 100 blitz games or 50 rapid games with a performance rating of over 2000.” So, one can easily conclude that AGM (Arena Grand Master) is notable, and AGM Krishn Charan is a notable chess player having significant coverage in reliable sources. Also, note that, many “significant coverage in reliable sources” about AGM Krishn Charan are mentioned in the article since beginning. Speedyking5 (talk) 15:25, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I am aware of the sources that are already in the article, and none of them are good enough. Going through those links in order:
 * 1) Charan's own website, not a reliable source to establish notability as it is not independent
 * 2) Just a routine mention of his name in a match result, not significant coverage
 * 3) Just shows he is an AGM, not significant coverage
 * 4),5) Just a mention of his registration in the tournament, not significant coverage
 * 6) One of his games in a chess database, not signficant coverage.

At least this is an acknowledgement that AGM (Arena Grand Master) title is a NOTABLE TITLE. Notability is due to the achievements. A chess player reaching to the level of playing in Asian Chess Championship, Commonwealth Chess Championship and having AGM title (out of about 395 AGM title holders in the world) has achieved BIG which gains notability in society to world level. Now, ignoring achievements, references of a chess player and taking discussion to the wrong direction by discussing lower or higher titles clearly shows unnecessary, unhealthy, deliberate, prejudiced and unethical attitude towards the achievements of a chess player or FIDE Online Arena platform or FIDE or all of them. There may be some vested interests in it by putting and pushing these types of misleading arguments. What will anyone lose by this article? and who and what will gain by deleting this article? Reference: www.krishncharan.com, https://chessarena.com/, https://web.archive.org/web/20190228142636/https://arena.myfide.net/ratings-and-titles/titled-players/ Speedyking5 (talk) 13:49, 23 December 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 20:01, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: Just going to point out that Draft:Krishn Charan also exists, but it was never submitted for review and it wasn't WP:MOVEd to the mainspace. So, if the consenus turns out to be that this article is kept, the draft probably would need to be redirected to the article. On the other hand, if the consensus turns out to be delete or even WP:DRAFTIFY, then perhaps the creator can continue to try improving the draft and submit for review via WP:AFC at a later date when they feel they've addressed the concerns being raised above. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:59, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. According to FIDE, his standard rating is 1327, rapid is 1374, and blitz is 1413. CM title is at 2100, FM title is at 2300. His world rank is #293,854. In theory, someone who can keep a 2000 online rating for 50/100/150 rapid, blitz, and bullet games ought to be able to do the same IRL in standard chess so perhaps a CM title or FM title is in the future for him (which would supercede the kids' table AGM title were he to do that). But per WP:CRYSTAL we should wait on the article until that happens. BBQboffin (talk) 03:41, 31 December 2021 (UTC)


 * NOT to be Deleted. Another childish argument with kids intelligence. No serious chess player can make arguments like this. FIDE profile of any chess player shows – rating of OTB (Over the Board or Offline) in standard, rapid and blitz formats. Besides these ratings, Online Arena Title is also shown in FIDE profile. In the case of Krishn Charan – Online Arena Title shown is – Arena Grand Master (AGM). Note that FIDE has separately shown the ratings of OTB and FOA (FIDE Online Arena) title in the same FIDE profile. FIDE has not compared OTB with FOA because they have different formats. Secondly, it is very difficult to get the AGM Title as there are about 395 AGM Title holders in the world. Now, also note that Krishn Charan is one of the few chess players in the world who has played VERY FEW and tough OTB/Offline tournaments mainly Nationals, Asian, Commonwealth and selected to play in Asian Junior Chess Championship and Commonwealth Chess Championship. This shows that Krishn Charan is a high-level chess player. That is why, he has also achieved the title of AGM (Arena Grand Master) by FIDE. Also note that, FIDE has used the term GRAND MASTER in AGM (Arena Grand Master) title. This also clearly shows that FIDE recognizes the exemplary achievements of a chess player to reach at this level of chess by honoring him with AGM (Arena Grand Master) title. There is no point in debating OTB vs FOA. So, we should also recognize the wisdom of FIDE and not anyone else. Also note that, this article should be retained so that it will clear the confusions (whether created deliberately or not) regarding the FIDE Online Arena titles like AGM (Arena Grand Master). Also, people will know that anyone who has less opportunities for OTB tournaments can achieve the BIG chess titles given by FIDE like AGM (Arena Grand Master). Reference: www.krishncharan.com, https://chessarena.com/, https://web.archive.org/web/20190228142636/https://arena.myfide.net/ratings-and-titles/titled-players/ Speedyking5 (talk) 14:52, 31 December 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.