Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Labrys religious community


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   redirect to Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionism.  MBisanz  talk 01:16, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Labrys religious community

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Article about a neopagan group is sourced almost entirely from the groups website. I could not find any significant secondary coverage. Mangoe (talk) 01:40, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:12, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:12, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:12, 29 December 2012 (UTC)


 * keep: Out of the 12 sources cited only 5 are from the organization's website and 4 cover the same subject so majority is 3d party links.

As the area of pagan studies (especially concerning the non English world) is very recent, any research still needs to be based on primary sources as well, which naturally comes from the original organizations. This is more than evident on the initial wikki article for contemporary Hellenic Polytheism here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenic_Polytheistic_Reconstructionism Where most citations are based on the own mentioned organization's sources. On top of that for the most part specific article is outdated containing even dead links, inactive organizations and giving a picture of the subject from the past decade. As Labrys organization has been active and influential in later years, reference to it is important to give a more accurate picture of current situation on the subject.

Furthermore due to the language restrictions (Native Greek) there is difficulty in citing English based sources but all original statements in this article are valid and confirmed from outside sources as well (feel free to suggest which ones should be used from the below). Impact of Labrys work on contemporary reconstruction groups within and outside Greece is for example evident from the fact that group is mentioned in almost all other active organizations on the subject, some of those mentioned in the original wikki article as well

http://forum.hellenistai.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=199 http://forum.hellenistai.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=835

https://sites.google.com/site/hellenionstemenos/Home/festivals/noumenia https://sites.google.com/site/hellenionstemenos/Home/festivals/agathos-daimon

http://hellenismos.us/f/YaBB.pl?num=1315511966/4

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReligioRomana/message/11901?var=1

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-22984.html

same thing applies for most Greek language sites of contemporary paganism or other not affiliated with any organization.

http://kallisti.writingkaye.com/2009/05/gods-in-house.html (http://kallisti.writingkaye.com/2011_01_01_archive.html)

http://kerukeion.blogspot.co.uk/2009/05/hellenic-household-worship.html guides on Hellenic paganism

http://www.scribd.com/doc/79094681/How-to-practice-Greek-Religion-Hellenismos or other related Wikki articles : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecate Finally interviews and articles of labrys members -as authorities on the subject of Hellenic polytheism- have appeared in magazines in Greece

http://www.e-typos.com/content/entheta_pdf/11hlios.pdf

http://www.archetypo.com.gr/index.php/el/joomlaorg/prohgoumena-mystery/image/63-mystery-61

and in many cases in newspaper concerning various actions most well documented one being the public debate that rose last year concerning an archeological site. A protest group with thousands of members was created for the preservation of the site for which Labrys chairman at the time was the spokesman, mentioned in Greek newspapers of high circulation i.e:

http://news.kathimerini.gr/4dcgi/_w_articles_civ_2_03/04/2011_437753

http://www.skai.gr/news/greece/article/164699/sugedrosi-diamarturias-gia-ti-diasosi-tou-vomou-tou-dodekatheou-/

http://news.kathimerini.gr/4dcgi/_w_articles_civ_100114_11/03/2011_435387

Finally for the multiple citation concerning the Attika Dionysia festival other third party sources could be used (it was even mentioned in a religious debate on Athens Indymedia) but these contain less info in terms of what the festival consists about, or pictures, so they were not preferred, but can be used instead

http://12thespis.wordpress.com/2009/05/02/attikadion/

http://www.hellenicreligion.gr/doc/attikadionusia1.htm

http://sfrang2.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/blog-post_26.html

http://www.12830.gr/forum/arthrografia/dionysia-2010/

https://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=1116290 — Preceding unsigned comment added by LefteriosA (talk • contribs) 17:28, 4 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment. The organization does seem to be discussed on and off the in the Greek blogosphere, but I'm having trouble finding any mention in other sources, even in Greek (admittedly, Greek sources are less well-indexed than American newspapers or books, so harder to search comprehensively). Of the links mentioned above, most are forum posts or blogs, and the ones in major newspapers (e.g. the Kathimerini links) don't actually mention the organization—the connection seems to be indirect, in that these are op-eds written in Kathimerini by someone affiliated with Labrys (but the op-ed doesn't say so). So I'm skeptical. --Delirium (talk) 18:11, 4 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment. I agree about blogs and forums but this is how pagan community oparates worldwide so most research inevitably comes from these sources. I have never seen a pagan organisation (at least Hellenic) mentioned in any book although as a movement it is pretty important not only in Greece but outside as well. Obvious from the fact that there are numerous "Hellenic polytheists" from countries all over the world. None of these are mentioned in books, this doesn;t mean they don;t exist or that they do not have an impact. For example I just saw searching for other sources that just yestarday, a very controversial minor political figure in Greece made a public statement of how he want's to be buried (there is a grave issue of minority rights for such things in Greece) naming Labrys as executioners of his last rights. http://iphicratisamyras.blogspot.gr/2013/01/blog-post_3264.html?spref=fb And yes indeed the organisation is not mentioned in the Kathimerini articles. On the second one it is evident that Christos Panopoulos (Χρήστος Πανόπουλος) is the spokesman for this protest group I mentioned and he is the one (unmentioned) being interviewed on the first. Of course we wouldn't expect Kathimerini or other newspaper to mention Labrys or any other group for just religious reasons (which is what Labrys is mainly about) so this is an indirect mention to polyhteism due to the news fuss around the protest. --LefteriosA  —Preceding undated comment added 07:20, 6 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Jay Jay What did I do? 00:23, 6 January 2013 (UTC)


 * merge a line for identification & redirect, to the article mentioned above, on Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionism. I am not convinced there is substantial discussion of this particular group  DGG ( talk ) 05:53, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionism where it is already mentioned. --Michig (talk) 08:49, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.