Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Laila Khan (singer)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus. This has been open for a long time. There are persuasive arguments on both sides, but I am not seeing consensus for either argument. Vanamonde (talk) 04:25, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Laila Khan (singer)

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Due to a far more famous namesake actress, it is very difficult to find sources. Most present sources are related or fail otherwise to WP:RS. Does not seem to make the threshold of notability WP:GNG The Banner talk 23:47, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. MorbidEntree - (Talk to me! (っ◕‿◕)っ♥) (please reply using &#x7B;&#x7B;ping&#x7D;&#x7D;) 01:30, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. North America1000 08:31, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 02:00, 15 September 2016 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete has not yet risen to the level of being a notable singer.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:20, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment she is known for singing in a non-English language. Has anyone searched in Urdu for her? Megalibrarygirl (talk) 00:42, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 03:24, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep Much above the bar set by NMUSIC. Some examples are below:
 * "Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour." Tribune, Geo TV, Sabaoon TV
 * "Has been a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio or TV network." 35 minutes coverage in Naghma Zar
 * Just a note for other readers, she's a Pashto singer, not Urdu. Many more such examples can be found and added to the article. Lourdes  05:10, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
 * The article still shows no significance and YouTube is not a reliable source. The Banner talk 18:07, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I think your nomination and reasoning are faulty on policy grounds due to a variety of reasons; mentioned below (my apologies much in advance; this is not meant to question your efforts):
 * When you nominated this article, you only referred to GNG, not realizing that SNG could also be a probable route for notability.
 * When you nominated this article, you claimed there were no RS. You could have easily done a Before and got sources like Tribune and Afghan News, which alone are enough to raise the notability of the subject above the NMUSIC bar (even if one were to forget the so-called Youtube links for a moment).
 * Currently, you mention that "YouTube is not a reliable source". You need to at least once go through Youtube to understand that there is no policy or guideline that restricts Youtube links; what is important to understand are the situations when Youtube should not be linked (especially the copyright issues that one has to be careful of; but of course, you are not referring to that). I have provided you two archived videos of news reports that allow the subject to qualify on an additional NMUSIC guideline. Within the article, you don't need to link to Youtube. You can simply quote the actual sources, Geo TV and Saboon TV. Verifiability requires the citing of the reliable source (Geo TV and Saboon TV in this case) and not providing of web links.
 * Lastly, the article may or may not show a credible claim, but while in CSDs, that criteria is valid, (that an article may be deleted if no credible claim of significance is mentioned), in deletion discussions, the criteria to be followed is mentioned in GNG and SNG. If you have an issue with significance not being shown in the article, that is not a valid sole claim in Afd discussions, especially for subjects like Laila Khan who has had extensive significant coverage in Tribune, Afghan News, Geo TV, Saboon TV, etc all of which I have documented above.
 * If the interested editors have time, they can include these sources and their contents on to the article. A regional bias should not dissuade us from including worthy subjects into Wikipedia, especially subjects like Laila Khan who are titled some of the most "famous Pashto singers". Lourdes  03:44, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Just do me a favour and start reading Wikipedia:Reliable Sources. The Banner talk 08:26, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I do have a grasp of it. Which particular part would you wish me to read up? (There's nothing on youtube, and nothing particularly on Tribune or Geo TV or Afghan News or other regional sources being unreliable; if you might be referring to that; but please do direct me to the particular section and I'll go through it). Thanks. Lourdes  11:58, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Start with the sections "Self-published sources (online and paper)" and "User-generated content". The Banner talk</i> 12:15, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Sure. Do you believe that the Tribune, Afghan News etc sources might be self-published sources? Lourdes  12:55, 25 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment With Banner's assistance in removing unwanted links, I've edited the article a bit and added all the sources now to the article. Lourdes  15:41, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Unsuitable, incorrect and/or double "sources". <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 20:16, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Banner, I've added ten sources, out of which five that discuss the subject at considerable length. I am not sure if you're referring to those sources, or to the ones that have been removed. Therefore, I would suggest that if you have any issue with the current 10 sources (5 of which are absolutely extensive coverage of the subject), please list the sources below and your objection to them. Thanks. Lourdes  02:38, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
 * At present the following sources are not more than passing mentions: source 1 (Walk Down memory Lane), source 3 (AVT channels launches musical Web TV), source 4 (Hunar-e-Hawwa awards conferred on excelling women; no indication of the value of this local award), source 6 (‘Amann’, a Pushto anthem for APS tragedy). Source 7 to 10 can not be checked at all, and the last one seems to be a primary source (interview with miss Khan). <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 13:27, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks Banner for the concise and correct analysis. By your analysis, I believe you accept source 5 (The Tribune source) to be significant as per RS. I also believe that if you are not able to check source 7 to 10, you can check the archives of all of them by pasting the key words "Laila Khan" and the channel name in Google search. The 10th source is a feature combination covering the singers achievements and combined with a live interview and songs by the performer. And these qualify her on NMUSIC (as stated right above). Thanks. Lourdes  14:00, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Significant is a big word, "just acceptable" is a better description. Reason for that is that it is close to a primary source: an interview with the singer herself. Primary sources should be avoided and replaced by independent sources. <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 16:27, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks Banner. Just acceptable is fair enough. As the 10th source is evidence of Laila Khan being "a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio or TV network", one can expect that it would include her primary statements too, and this would again qualify her on NMUSIC. Lourdes  02:31, 29 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The article is too far along for me to delete it per G5, but it was created by a puppet of a rather prolific sockmaster.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:57, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi . Thanks for the note. I'm alright with whatever action you deem fit per your judgement. I'll defer to that (even if you wish to delete this later). Lourdes  03:25, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Even worse: another blocked sockpuppet <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 11:49, 6 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.