Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lali clan


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Secret account 23:17, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Lali clan

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Fails WP:GNG. The tribe does exist - eg: and this - but beyond mentions in lists such as these there appears to be nothing written about it in reliable sources. Sitush (talk) 16:56, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:17, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:17, 27 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete per nominator; I previously tried to this for the same reason. APerson (talk!) 03:44, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete Too short. Bladesmulti (talk) 12:46, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and convert to redirect to Lalian, which has details about the clan. At least the names of books that are supposed to be histories of the clan. – Margin1522 (talk) 20:14, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Lalian is unsourced for the relevant points and any books that were listed are useless. In fact, the Lalian article probably needs to be stubbed. - Sitush (talk) 20:42, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment You mean useless in the sense that Bhim Singh Dahiya was useless, as an amateur linguist with unverifiable theories about history? From information on the net, that's the sense that I got. OK, remove that. Looking through the history, I see that you've been trying to get rid of this article for years. What was the issue with the "Gazetteer of Jhang District 1909"? Maybe it's not the most reliable source, but when it's the only one... all of our information about the early Germans comes from the Romans. The Gazetteer still survives in Gilotar, which is a similar article to this one. If we delete this, that should probably go too. Is there a policy that we are not going to go into this level of detail on Jat clans in Punjab? Also, about the Sufi poet, Mian Muhammad Siddique Lali, there doesn't seem to be any information in English, but has anyone checked Urdu? It seems like he existed, like the clan exists.
 * I'm not saying that this article deserves to survive. I don't think it does. But is there a problem with redirecting the name to their main town, which does seem to be true? I'm trying to get a sense of how much we need to delete. – Margin1522 (talk) 08:46, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Dahiya is a fringe theorist par excellence. We don't use Raj and pre-Raj sources for caste/tribe issues, by long-standing convention. You will find some threads about that at WP:RSN but, in simple terms, they fail because of things such as puffery, Vedic Brahmin lies bias, scientific racism and WP:HISTRS. The most generous interpretation of those sources would be that they are compilations of folklore, and that is pushing it. The exception would be if a modern academic etc source cited the old source, which is extremely rare and would in any event mean that we could cite the modern source instead. I need to write that essay some day.


 * I'm not sure what your point is when you say that I've been "trying to get rid of the article for years" but I can assure you that I've got a lot of experience in this topic area. - Sitush (talk) 08:58, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks, that's what I wanted to know. I guess there is no point in redirecting to another article if the relevant information is dubious and slated for removal. – Margin1522 (talk) 10:00, 4 December 2014 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.