Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lamar Neagle


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Both sides raise equally strong arguments; no strong consensus either way. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 16:00, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Lamar Neagle

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Contested PROD. Footballer fails WP:ATHLETE as he has yet to play in a fully-professional competition, being in a squad/roster doesn't satisfy the criteria. Sources provided fail WP:GNG as four of the five are profiles for teams he has played for, thus not being secondary. The other source regarding him signing is only about him signing for Seattle Sounders FC, nothing about the exploits of the player. --Jimbo[online] 13:13, 19 July 2009 (UTC) *Delete. When he plays a competitive game, recreate the article. I would not object to userfying it. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 20:31, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. GiantSnowman 14:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom; non-notable footballer who fails WP:ATHLETE. Recreate when/if becomes notable. GiantSnowman 14:12, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete no evidence that he has played in the league Spiderone (talk) 15:18, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep player just signed with a fully pro team about a month ago and is on the team's official 1st team roster. Thus, he is very likely to meet ATHLETE in the near future.  To delete now and recreate when he plays his first game would be pointless process at this point.  Furthermore, failing to meet ATHLETE is not an automatic disqualifier - an athlete can still be notable if they meet the GNG which this player does.  This college career was well covered: . And actually it appears he made his pro debut yesterday, albeit in an exhibition game.   This should show he will be playing for the Seattle Sounders this season. Again it would just be pointless process to delete and then recreate in a week when he plays his first regular season game, even if one denies the GNG qualification. --ThaddeusB (talk) 17:33, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment exhibition games are exactly that and not competitive. Saying he's likely to play is crystal balling, should he make his debut in a competitive competition, admins can easily recreate the article to it's original state. A Google search doesn't mean anything unless the sources can be proved reliable and relevant. --Jimbo[online] 17:38, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but common sense says he is going to play in a regular season pro game very shortly. It is completely pointless to delete and recreate in a week.  By your logic we should delete all 256 players here, all 60 players here, the 40+ players here that have pages so far, and most the 60 players here since none have yet played a pro game. We shouldn't be blind slaves to ATHLETE, CRYSTAL, (neither of which say always delete articles that fail it, BTW), or any other guideline, but instead apply common sense.  Sometimes amateur athletes are notable and sometime future events can be taken into account.  As a general rule, amateurs and future events are non-notable but the guidelines as written allow for exceptions and people need to remember that and not just say "fails ATHLETE = auto-delete." --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * A lot of the players on that MLS draft list are black links, if a player sufficiently passes WP:GNG then they are notable. There is only one secondary source, which is hardly in depth and enough to pass GNG. The article can easily be recreated by an admin, so there's no issue there. --Jimbo[online] 19:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That only means that no one has created a page yet. Additionally, we don't delete pages because they don't currently use two RS - if we did ~50% of the encyclopedia would be gone.  The source I listed above is clearly about the player ("Memorable debut for Federal Way's Neagle") rather than the team which means we are already at two sources about him from that one and the one in the article already.  There are several other sources specifically about him available (for example, "Neagle's progress lifts soccer squad") - the fact they aren't in the article doesn't mean they are invalid.  Finally, it might be "no big deal" recreate the article in a week, but that doesn't mean it is productive to delete it either.  --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:03, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. Neagle has now played for Seattle :.  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 22:34, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete Can be recreate when/if he plays professionally. This is a clear case of crystal balling. It has happened in the past (a fair number of times) that players are injured or heaven forbid killed prior to playing a game after they signed a contract. -Djsasso (talk) 01:11, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep WP:ATHLETE is not policy, and we can choose to ignore it from time to time. I choose to ignore it in this case--the argument "He's bound to play pretty soon" and "that's a crystal ball" and "we can deleted it then recreate it if we need to" just seems like the kind of song-and-dance routine that happens from time to time.  I don't dance.  Plus, a quick google search gives me a lot of references to make me think that his amateur career has warrented more than enough coverage to keep this article.--Paul McDonald (talk) 03:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 18:06, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 18:06, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

The following was just added to the article's talk page: "I am not sure why this article has been flagged for deletion but all the information is legitimate. All of this information can be found on Seattle Sounders FC's official website. If a professional athlete's team website isn't a reliable source then what is??

As far as his notability, he is a professional athlete for the number 2 team in the MLS. He has made his debut. He has a player profile on Seattle's website. All the other Seattle Sounders have articles and he has already made his debut. There is no reason for this deletion.

Sid1977 (talk) 20:52, 23 July 2009 (UTC)"

I have instructed the editor how to properly respond to AfDs in the future. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:57, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.