Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Larry West (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. —  Aitias  // discussion 18:20, 13 January 2009 (UTC) AfDs for this article: 

Larry West

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Procedural nom; Curious27 will write the reason why. NuclearWarfare  ( Talk ) 04:59, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete it, seems to be an autobiographical vanity page. Or at the very least, everything cited to his own website should be removed. NeoMetal (talk) 05:22, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Wiki is supposed to be a source of FACTS, not your friggin myspace, delete. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lolqueeuqlol (talk • contribs) 05:31, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete It appears Larry West is once again referring himself in the 3rd person in a persisent attempt to salvage his page and mask his actions, he seems to perceive everyone gullible enough to fail to realize this, the "impact" he speaks of is nothing more than a reminder of his apparent egotistical crusade as when compared with other actual notable artists his achievements pale in comparison, and DO NOT warrant a wikientry in the slightest (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 13:04, 9 January 2009 (UTC).
 * Delete. If Larry West/Luvataciousskull is allowed to maintain his own wikipedia page, it sets a dangerous precedent. The evidence shows that Luvataciousskull and Larry West are one in the same, and that he's been monitoring edits to the page. Wikipedia should be a source of shared information and gathering of knowledge; not another Myspace or Facebook. This page serves no purpose other than acting as a vanity page and link to West's own website. While Mr. West may feel incredibly important that he ran for an office he couln't legally be voted into, it would be akin to my 7 year-old daughter saying that she's going to be president; she's too young, it can't legally happen, and she certainly shouldn't have a Wikipedia page dedicated to her because of it.
 * Delete The page itself appears to be nothing more than a vanity page, as the links above seem to suggest and in which case this page merits a speedy deletion. Perhaps a line or two mentioning Skull's/West's futile attempts to become mayor could be inserted into the elections page itself once it has been revised due to Skull's/West's reckless editing of it to sooth his ego and bring an end to this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by kdma87 (talk • contribs) 08:32, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Editing this page does not rule out the fact that this page holds no barring on the history of Philadelphia. This is yet another attempt at Mr. West to keep his personal vanity page up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.75.245 (talk) 13:49, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to make notice of the above user's(208.236.9.10) repeated warnings on his contributions page and that it is a shared IP and therefore possibly another of Mr. West/Skull's vain and borderline schizophrenic "keep" comments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by kdma87 (talk) 14:23, 9 January 2009 (UTC) I have to note that the history of everyone voting to delete or keep this page should have their user history looked at before deletion since most of the votes seem to come from people who have only edited the Larry West page or this page alone. These members seem less likely to actually care about Wikipedia and it standards, less about making sure this article is noteworthy, and more about attacking Mr. West and myself. Before any decision is made, I ask that the history of every user is checked to ensure that the people asking to delete it have an actual history or point. LuvataciousSkull (talk) 17:27, 9 January 2009 (UTC) Superscript text
 * Delete As I have stated previously, if Larry West were notable enough for a wikipedia biography, somebody else would have written it. Not only did Larry West clearly author his biography, but he sourced his own websites, and has been defending the page more or less alone ever since its inception. Had Larry West not been masquerading around referring to himself in the third person and fighting to no end in what is clearly some rather shallow struggle to allocate to himself some facet of self-impmortance, the page would surely have been deleted by now. It is of no significance or notability. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.148.55 (talk) 17:11, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Since we are being called on to look at user histories, I feel it's important to remind everyone in this discussion, that LuvataciousSkull IS Larry West.  He continues to speak of himself in the 3rd person to try to fool everyone here.   He posts on the Megadeth music forums as user "Luvatacious Skull" and advertises his "Mark Skull pirate radio" station broadcasts there.  He also advertises the same radio station from his Larry West owned website http://www.morisecomics.com/markskullpirateradio/.   When this wiki page was first created, he called upon members of the same Megadeth forum to assist him with corrections, proofreading etc.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ejankov (talk • contribs) 18:27, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * DeleteI'm unsure what voters' history has to do with the fact that LuvataciousSkull is Larry West. This is undeniable, and the fact that Mr. West continues to refer to himself in the 3rd person in an attempt to hide it is laughable. He's trying to redirect attention from that FACT, thinking that by pointing fingers elsewhere, nobody will notice that he created this page. This page was nominated for deletion because there is nothing of merit on it....it's a vanity page, invented to feed the ego of a young man who seems to crave attention, plain and simple. That's our point, Mr. West/LuvataciousSkull. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.27.182.88 (talk) 18:31, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Doing a design for someone's guitar is not worthy of a wikipedia article, Larry West should cease his intensely stubborn quest to keep his page, I further suggest that he be banned from wikipedia to prevent his penchant for exploiting services for his gain to occur here again
 * Delete Larry, please stop referring to yourself in third person, it's insulting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.148.55 (talk) 00:15, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Larry West's page is nothing more than a MySpace for him. He is trying to make himself notable, but he's indeed not. He has entirely no reason to be here, except for maybe a small blurb in the mayoral election article. He is not notable enough for a single entry that is seperate from his one small grasp on fame, which really wasn't much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.75.245 (talk) 00:48, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Rules forbid you from creating a page for yourself, that infraction alone warrants this article's deletion, not to mention the absolute lack of educational signifigance to it. As much as it's creator would like to think differently and for his own gain this article is nothing more than a self-serving conceited effort on his part to promote himself by exploiting the services of wikipedia.org

There is no further course but for immediate deletion, this sort of avaricious corruption should not be tolerated —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vernier Pomp (talk • contribs) 11:50, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep I've taken a stab at re-writing the article in order to keep it. I noted some the references point out by the user with the IP Address 98.235.167.191 and the comments by DMacks. I think the article may just need some more editing and that isn't enough reason to delete the page. My take. LuvataciousSkull (talk) 13:43, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete Apparently did get mentioned in local news, but seems like a WP:BLP1E at best (a sentence or two in Philadelphia mayoral election, 2007  would suffice) and fails WP:POLITICIAN. Even notability of the 1E is suspect: he looks like a write-in candidate with no party affiliation who waged a battle that was doomed from the start by his age, who got minimal votes. In the past 18 months since the first AfD, is there any evidence that he has had lasting impact or that his activities have historical worth? If in the future his battle becomes more than (what sounds like) a one-man self-serving crusade or he becomes a viable candidate, or somehow else becomes involved in something with lasting impact or historical worth, then I think he would have the notability to deserve an article. The cited refs don't seem up to WP:RS Metro appears to be a freebie publication meant for for quick reads of major important headlines and misc items of local interest piled at commuter stops, more "newsy/serious" than an indie rag but not nearly up to status of a real newspaper. If this person is really important even just in Philly-local politics, I would assume he would have substantial coverage in multiple mainstream media...there are numerous TV stations, major newspapers, and other publications in town. DMacks (talk) 05:43, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete DMacks said it best and hit the points I was concerned with, but I also want to add that a quick Google search of LuvataciousSkull and Larry West shows that they are one and the same. LuvataciousSkull is a handle Larry West appears to use on various Internet sites.  LuvataciousSkull is also the author and protector of this wiki, ruling it with a terrible bias.  For the identity evidence, here are a few URL's:

http://luvataciousskull.deviantart.com/ http://www.zazzle.com/luvataciousskull http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=57391705 http://www.acerbic.com.au/victim/victim.html http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/anthrax/215711-o-t-mark-skull-pirate-radio-1-000-hours.html Curious27 (talk) 06:05, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete This is obviously Larry West's vanity page. He wrote it himself, including personal comments not cited on other websites.  He cites his own website as a source.  There is no proof that he was awarded the Ruth and Bernard Petlock Award in 2005, nor a description of what it is.  He wasn't of legal age to run and was never a candidate.  Even if he received a majority of votes, he wouldn't win.  Luvatacious isn't even a word.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Psykill333 (talk • contribs) 07:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. There are too few credible sources.  If you remove links to blogs and own sites (WP:SELFPUB), (WP:EL), there would be nothing left.  Subject is not notable, as stated above.  Nelson50 T   10:37, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. Larry West himself (LuvataciousSkull) is the creator and obsessive maintainer of this article, which offers no educational value. He has abused 3RR multiple times in its preservation, and when I tried to nominate it for deletion, he removed it with comment, "You are not in a position to nominate an article for deletion. Please refrain from your vandalism. Vandalism is not tolerated by Wikipedia." He refers to himself in third person to mask his bias while defending himself on the talk pages of his article as well as the philadelphia mayoral one, of which I suggest his mentioning is removed as well (he was not a legally recognized or notable candidate, and there is no record of any votes received). Writing and defending an autobiographical article on Wikipedia is "strongly discouraged" (Autobiography) and most of the material in the Larry West page would be more appropriate on LuvataciousSkull's user page. Spinecraft (talk) 11:30, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. Does anybody really even know who this guy is? People from Philly, feel free to chime in on this. I don't live there, but I have family that does, so I talked to them frequently about the ongoing race. Never once had I heard of Larry West, even in passing, until I read his vanity page here. As far as I knew, Wikipedia didn't allow these kinds of things. Especially with such pointless information as video about him making macaroni and cheese. There's plenty of people on YouTube that post videos of themselves doing ordinary activities. Do they all deserve their own Wikipedia articles? Not to mention, previous votes for deleting the article have said that Larry created the page himself, which I wouldn't doubt based on some of the things in it.The Myst (talk) 11:35, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep I'm looking a the comments left by a few people here about why to keep and delete this... it seems there are a lot of allegations about if "Larry West" created the page and is editing it like a loon, and a lot of people who seem to be making comments on both ends (Delete and Keep) only edited pages related to Larry West and nothing else. It seems like a LOT of the comments for deleting it come from people who only edited the Larry West page or the 2007 Philadelphia Mayoral Election page, and it seems they have something against him personally. I learned about him a few days ago during a web search on young people who ran for office. It seems like he's worth a Wiki page to me. I've seen Wiki pages dedicate to obscure bands, albums, singles, etc... things it only seems 50 people care or even know about. Looking at the history of the Larry West page and the discussion, this looks more like a sort of witch hunt than about protecting Wikipedia. 208.236.9.10 (talk) 14:01, 9 January 2009 (UTC) — 208.236.9.10 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Strong Keep The main reason to keep this article is simple: Larry West was the youngest person to try and run for office in the city of Philadelphia. While I agree that not much has happened lately in the public eye, he did have some impact at the time. There are numerous articles on Wikipedia about bands, artists, people, tv shows, etc, that had only a limited impact at the time they came out, and the lasting aspect of them didn't appear until much later, if at all.

The Philadelphia Metro is a reliable free newspaper with national recognition as a respected newspaper. The other references to this article, including the Philadelphia Daily News, rely on hard copies since the articles are no longer online. Larry West also was mentioned and written about in Philadelphia City Paper and Philadelphia Weekly. It seems that most of the references were deleted, either purposely by others or by accident, so for the purpose of restoring notability and historical significance, here are the links in question:

http://www.citypaper.net/articles/2007/08/02/young-man-west-gone - Young Man West Gone http://willdo.pwblogs.com/2007/05/02/musicians-let-us-keep-rittenhouse-square-vibrant/ - Musicians: Let Us Keep Rittenhouse Square Vibrant http://philly.metro.us/metro/local/article/Music_fills_Rittenhouse_in_a_show_of_solidarity/8312.html - Metro Article http://www.philly.com/inquirer/breaking/news_breaking/20070629_Street_out__aide_in__in_quest_for_latest_phone.html - iPhone Article https://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/articles/14200/a-e--on-the-radar - Real Life Is Not Fugazi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RkW4B73MRk - Larry West's Interview on Fox 29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evCrOgfUXDc - Larry West's Interview on Philebrity.com

What isn't mentioned in the article is how Larry West fought to help musicians play in the Rittenhouse Square, or how he confronted then-mayor John Street about standing in line for an iPhone instead of working, as noted by the Associated Press and Philadelphia Inquirer.

I agree, Wikipedia isn't a place for vanity, but historical facts. A lot of facts are missing from this page, as well as references to the above articles. Larry West has proven to have a lasting impact in the fact that he fought for musicians rights and the possible impact he might have on future elections. I think deleting the page now would be a bad idea since it was agreed to keep it based on the notability guidelines that were established by Wikipedia. 98.235.167.191 (talk) 12:05, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Please demonstrate how Larry West has had a lasting impact with musicians rights. I have seen nothing on that.Curious27 (talk) 14:45, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Let it be noted that upon reading this IP address's history, the only other edit it's ever made is to add Larry West back to the "Philadelphia mayoral election, 2007" article two days ago. Seems suspicious to me. I see no proof that any of those things will leave a lasting impact on anything, even locally in Philidelphia. I'm almost sure this is Larry trying to boost his own reputation again.The Myst (talk) 12:33, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Comments:
 * WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a good reason to keep this page...the article needs to stand on its own merits, not just be the bag on top by the curb. We're trying to clean up the neighborhood one block at a time...just because there might be another delinquent tenant also doesn't mean a landlord shouldn't try to evict a certain one that he cares enough to take to court.
 * Deletion due to lack of notability is for now, not forever: there is no ban on an article being written in the future, if and when it becomes apparent that there really is lasting/historically-significant impact.
 * There do appear to be WP:SPA (and maybe WP:SOCK) here on both sides. Regarding whether LuvataciousSkull is indeed Larry West, consider also as evidence (NB: only admins can see it, but any admin can confirm it) that LS uploaded File:LarryWest1.jpg with an annotation of "Source=self-made|Author=Larry West". DMacks (talk) 18:41, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * "Deletion due to lack of notability is for now, not forever: there is no ban on an article being written in the future, if and when it becomes apparent that there really is lasting/historically-significant impact." Sounds fair and reasonable to me. :) Change my vote to "Delete". LuvataciousSkull (talk) 19:07, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.   --  Fabrictramp  |  talk to me  22:02, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pennsylvania-related deletion discussions.   --  Fabrictramp  |  talk to me  22:03, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions.   --  Fabrictramp  |  talk to me  22:03, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'Delete under WP:N. MikeHobday (talk) 22:10, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete there have been a few other wikipedia pages for other write in candidates in elections Articles for deletion/Piotr Blass (2nd nomination) come to mind which had a tortured history until eventual deletion. I don't think just standing in an election is enough to warrent inclusion. Much the same seems to apply here. I am reasonable convinced that LuvataciousSkull and Larry West are one and the same which make the page largely a self written page, or worse a use of wikipedia as part of an ongoing political campaign. Printed press coverage making it borderine for WP:NOTE at best. I had initially thought that West's megadeath connection might have been been worthy of inclusion but that does not seem strong enough to warrent inclusion.
 * I do have some concern that a number of the deletes come from new users and there does seem to be quite an anti campain witnessed by the number of vandalistinc edits to the Larry West page. Which resulted in me semi-protecting the page.
 * DMacks suggestion of a sentence or two in Philadelphia mayoral election, 2007 seems to be the most appropriate solution.--Salix (talk): 22:47, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Salix, first off, thanks for all the help! The Megadeth part actually struck a tone in me because I forgot that, yes, Larry West has had more of a lasting impact outside the world of Philadelphia politics! He did a design that was used on the guitar of Dave Mustaine for some time:
 * http://www.getreadytorock.com/features/dave_mustaine1.jpg - Dave's Guitar
 * http://www.morisecomics.com/btu/btuprojectintro.htm - Larry's Original image
 * There was also an article done by SheVibe Magazine about him:
 * http://shevibemagazine.com/component/content/article/37/456-the-larry-west-interview - Shevibe Interview about Politics
 * I think that should be taken into consideration, too. LuvataciousSkull (talk) 23:40, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Can a mod force Larry (LuvataciousSkull) to stop speaking in the thrid person. It has been proven it is him, and frankly it is insulting to the conversation and everyone trying to participate.  Everyone here is intelligent, and if the links posted were not enough proof, Dmacks provided more proof.  Isn't this a violation of Wikipedia policy?  If so, is there a disciplinary action that is taken against users who do?  As pointed out, this article is not noteworthy, Larry West himself said it should be deleted, and he is just grasping at straws to keep it up; again proving it is his vanity page.Curious27 (talk) 01:01, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. Does not appear to be notable. If a person were to write a research paper on Philadelphia's events in 2007, I doubt Larry West would be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr.Krowley (talk • contribs) 20:07, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete: it's a neat job done by the author of pulling the wool over our eyes with what appears to be a well written article, but cut through the guff and you'll find very little of substance here. Fails notability, just. sparkl!sm hey! 20:15, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.