Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Last November


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Delete. There were two delete votes and no well-formed keep votes. There was some 'keep' sentiment expressed informally, mostly by newcomers to Wikipedia, but it did not appear to be based on Wikipedia policy. Those arguing for keep did not offer arguments phrased in terms of the criteria of WP:MUSIC. EdJohnston (talk) 23:20, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Last November

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Band is not notable. No specific references verify what is written. The only independent reference provided, New Music Weekly, does not link to anything that specifically mentions the band — it just links to the home page of the site, and a search of the site turns up nothing about the group. The other citations are to AllMusic which merely proves the band exists, the band's MySpace (see this page), and the label's web site page about the band. None of those can be considered reliable, independent sources because they are controlled by the band itself, its label, or others with a vested interest in the band. This band is not signed by a major label or well-known indie. It has not placed a song on a major chart. It does not inherit notability from its producers (as the original author claims) or anyone outside the band itself. Therefore, it fails Wikipedia's notability policies for bands and the article should be deleted, without prejudice toward re-creation if the band "hits it big" later on. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 23:15, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom.   — Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs) 23:28, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

The New Music Weekly link does mention the band. It is a voting page. Therefore you have to click on the drop down menu which lists the nominees for "new top 40 group of the year" Last November is listed there along with Seether and other notable acts.

Specify what a big indie label is. Southern Tracks Records has had very notable artists in the past. Southern Tracks Records also owns Bill Lowery Music Publishing Group which has thousands of songs in its catalogue including Last Novembers songs. Bill Lowery was an extremely important figure in Georgia's music history and was the first non-performer inducted into the georgia music hall of fame. Therefore, Southern Tracks Records is a notable independent label.

The New Music Weekly Charts are notable and respected charts. Last November's new single impacted only a few weeks ago and is at number 63 on the top 100.

Robert pillgraham (talk) 23:39, 2 November 2008 (UTC) — Robert pillgraham (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Question: Are you related to Luke Pilgrim? How did you hear of this band, and what is your relationship to it?  Thanks!    — Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs) 23:49, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment: The New Music Weekly charts are not notable. The fact that it apparently is an Internet voting system makes it very suspect. I see no one else citing this chart. The label apparently does not merit a Wikipedia article itself. I'm beginning to suspect the original author has some sort of connection to the band, which would run afoul of WP:COI. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 02:37, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I see no proof that the New Music Weekly charts are official like Billboard. Southern Tracks does indeed have other notable artists, but notability isn't inherited. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 23:42, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the point about the Southern Tracks is that in WP:MUSIC one of the standards is this: "Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable)." So, I think what he's arguing is that their two albums have been released on one of the "more important indie labels."  Metros (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: I found this article which, by itself, doesn't give it notability, however, there is a line in there that says their song "Sniper" was featured on MTV. I haven't been able to see anything in a quick Google search to expand upon that, but maybe someone can explore that?  (I'm not able to thoroughly investigate right now).  Metros (talk) 23:43, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I only recently joined Wikipedia. Like many, however, I use it frequently for information. One of my friends and I who happen to be big fans of Last November realized they were one of the few newer Indy bands we're into (and more popular, might I add), that didn't have a Wikipedia entry. Therefore, we decided to add a section, and are slowly contributing to it as we get some free time. I would appreciate it if you would stop deleting the thread, because the band is played on the radio and tours, and is *officially* up for nomination as a top 40 band with NMW, a HUGE group in the industry. Their site tracks spins, rankings, etc. Again, they are far more prominent than many of the bands I listen to that I've found entries for, even some with full albums with their own entry. This is a pretty frustrating first experience adding onto Wikipedia, I must add. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daguitaristz (talk • contribs) 02:44, 3 November 2008 (UTC) — Daguitaristz (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * First of all, welcome to Wikipedia. You must realize that not all subjects are notable enough to merit articles. We have specific guidelines (click here) regarding bands and musicians. Last November does not meet these requirements. NMW is not huge in the industry by any means. Just being played by a handful of radio stations is not enough. A smattering of tour dates is not enough. Last November make become famous someday, but not now. Until then, no article. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 02:53, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

and isn't the point of Wikipedia to provide a bank of truthful knowledge to computer users? There's no promotion or advertisement going on here. I just don't see where a policy is being broken. To be frank, I believe some of these self-proclaimed Wikipedia police have let their "position" go to their heads. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daguitaristz (talk • contribs) 21:19, 3 November 2008 (UTC) — Daguitaristz (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment: It's been over 24 hours, with nary a properly-formed opinion to keep. WP:SNOW, anyone?    — Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs) 21:13, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well I only see one !vote to delete it so far, so I don't think a snow closing would be proper here at all. Either way (talk) 21:21, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No, it's too early yet (and I'm the nom). Let this go for a while. Right now we're at the stage of having a couple of fans of the band who don't yet grasp the notion that not every band deserves a Wikipedia article, and haven't had much more than that. Let the AfD run its course. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 22:35, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I still don't understand the big issue. The band has 2 albums through a legitimate label, plays major shows, is up for nomination as a top40 new group...
 * "Legitimate label" doesn't necessarily mean "notable label." Additionally, the definition of a "Major show" is debatable in this case. And apparently anyone can be nominated for this new-group thing, so that's no help. We don't doubt that this article is truthful; but the band just isn't notable enough (yet). - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 22:35, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I did find this http://www.pittradio.net/music_info/artist_info.asp?id=1008 from Pittradio.net saying "Last November is a band that quickly exceeds expectations. Last November’s 2nd album is being produced by Steven Haigler (Brand New, Fuel, Pixies, Oleander)". It's not much.  But I'd really really like to support this new user who wants to have an article.  Will they update the article with some better references establishing notability? Can they? ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:42, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.