Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lathrop & Gage


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. (non-admin closure) DavidLeighEllis (talk) 00:15, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Lathrop & Gage

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This law firm article has claims of greatness that would easily establish its notability. However, it cites no third-party sources but only the company's own website, and at least some of the claims, such as "oldest continuously operating law firm west of the Mississippi River", seem dubious or outright wrong (see Rose Law Firm and User:EpiphanyVP/sandbox for other contenders for that title). I have failed to find independent verification for such claims, or any significant third-party coverage. Thus the article seems to be unverifiable spam. Its claims have infiltrated other articles on old law firms west of the Mississippi, without any reliable sources, of course. Huon (talk) 23:53, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Missouri-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:51, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:51, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:51, 27 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep - A firm with more than 300 attorneys and one the 200 largest law firms in the United States is defacto notable. The claim of being oldest west of the Mississippi is discussed in the article and it's clearly not that.  You can delete that if you want but it's still notable simply on the basis of its size. Americasroof (talk) 05:09, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It should also be added that is attorneys include a former Kansas governor and Kansas City mayor. All of these things make it notable.  A simple google reveals thousands of articles about it.Americasroof (talk) 05:17, 27 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment - what makes you believe that the claim of being among the 200 largest law firms in the US, based on their own website, is more accurate than the claim of being the oldest west of the Mississippi, also based on their own website? If you have found thousands of reliable sources that discuss the company in some detail, please go ahead and add some of them to the article. My own searches failed to turn up more than press releases a la "Lathrop & Gage announced today that they hired John Doe", not quite significant coverage. Also, notability is not inherited. Huon (talk) 13:26, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment - I only did the article to fill in a red link on the List of largest U.S. law firms by number of lawyers which is sourced from the National Law Journal. You can also find info on http://www.ilrg.com/nlj250/attorneys/desc/3    I also back linked existing articles than had existing references to it and that’s how I ran across the oldest claim.  But I clarified that as there is no way Lathrop is the oldest (which is stated in the article)  Lathrop & Gage is most famous for its railroad practice and you can see all kinds of links here. https://www.google.com/search?q=lathrop+and+gage+railroad&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=%22lathrop+%26+gage%22+railroad&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&start=0  The article definitely needs work but on articles for deletion the debate is not about the quality of the article but rather than the subject is notable.  Lathrop & Gage by virtue of its size, railroad work, and notable attorneys clearly meets the critieria.Americasroof (talk) 15:22, 27 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 01:21, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

 
 * Incubate. I'd say this passes WP:GNG as it has multiple independent and reliable sources referencing the subject, although they aren't included in the article. There is a massive BUT though. None of the content in the article is suitable for inclusion as it almost all refers to primary sources so I'd suggest WP:INCUBATION as the author seems to have expressed a willingness to work on the article. Gm545 (talk) 04:49, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Lankiveil (speak to me) 12:17, 15 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep It seems easy to find coverage in sources like The American Lawyer: "Lathrop & Gage is a Kansas City, Missouri-based law firm. It acquired Spillane Shaeffer Aronoff Bandlow LLP on January 1, 2009. According to the National Law Journal's 2011 NLJ 250 rankings of firms based on size, Lathrop & Gage has 281 attorneys and is the 150th largest firm in the United States. According to The American Lawyer's 2011 Am Law 200 rankings of firms based on revenue, Lathrop & Gage, with a 2010 gross revenue of $122,500,000, ranked 177th on the list."  Incubation would be a waste of time, as that project is moribund, and, in any case, is contrary to our editing policy. Andrew (talk) 18:10, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep and fix. AfD isn't cleanup. Also found: . James500 (talk) 08:56, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. Good deal of source coverage, as already noted, above. Cheers, &mdash; Cirt (talk) 07:49, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.