Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lauren Grissom (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  10:10, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Lauren Grissom
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

To begin with the previous nomination was part of a huge unruly bundle, that suffered from all huge bio nominations problems, if any of the people are notable than all will have support for keeping them. I think there is also a factor that over time the inclusion criteria of Wikipedia have gotten tighter. Back in 2006 when this article was created Wikipedia considered many candidates for public office who lost notable, since then we have realized that there are not the sources to create substantial meaningful articles on all such candidates. In the same way I think we have come to realize there is no good reason to have articles on all state-level beauty pageant winners. This is especially true when you consider that of the first 34 winners of Miss USA Tennessee we only have articles on two of them. One because she went on to become a notable singer/songwriter, the other because she was later one of the inagural flight attendants for Southwest Airlines and one of only 5 inaguaral ones (from 1971) still working as a flight attendant for the company in 2014, 43 years later. Even at that I have doubts if the coverage and sources on Sandra Force justify having the article, Considering that through the mid-1970s the industry goal with flight attendants was young attractive females in the model of cocktail waitresses while since the image of the flight attendant has been somewhat reworked, that people in their early 60s are on the job who have been there since their early 20s is not surprising, also it would be a much more interesting article if we were told how many original flight attendants Southwest had, because 5 out of 10 would not be as impressive as one of 5 out of 100. I digress, back to Grissom, she has been involved in minor modeling and acting and had a minor role in a reality TV show, but none of that adds up to notability. John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:17, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2016 July 1.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 18:35, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment: When I see even lesser lights that are dubious for PORNBIO survive AfD, I do think we should think about giving some credit if there's more than just the pageant.  I know that an OTHERSTUFF argument doesn't really cut it, but it does seem that a reality show trumps an adult film... sigh. This isn't a !vote yet, just a discussion.  Montanabw (talk)  04:17, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment I agree that we need to discuss about the notability of beauty pageant title holders including this one in more detail. I read on one of these AFD's where an editor stated just winning a US state title does not give notability. "Where is that written in stone?" Usually the state winners go on to the national pageant where there is more chance to show notability. Also many subjects have one or more other things going on that also can denote notability. Since there has been an upswing in these beauty pageant winners, I hope we can come to a consensus on what wins confer notability. Any ideas?  Fouetté rond de jambe en tournant  04:47, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * One possibility is to look at doing a WP:NPAGEANT criteria, as is done for WP:NSPORTS, WP:NACTOR, WP:NMODEL, etc.. Montanabw (talk)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:28, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:28, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:28, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:28, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Tennessee-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:28, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 00:19, 8 July 2016 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, &mdash; Music1201  talk  03:20, 15 July 2016 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: final relist &mdash; Music1201  talk  00:28, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - Run of the mill beauty contest winner. Carrite (talk) 14:49, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, &mdash; Music1201  talk  00:28, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Leaning delete To be honest, my feelings on these articles are well documented. I agree that we need a really strong WP:NPAGEANT criteria, per the suggestion of User:Montanabw. And I am sorry to see that the Fashion deletion category is once again becoming a dumping ground for women who are probably perfectly nice, but who are reduced to presenting themselves as bait for the male gaze. I recall an attempt to establish guidelines for beauty pageant notability a couple of years back, but think it fizzled out. But it IS something that is needed - especially as every year we get a surge of promoters desperate for us to know that about 20 entrants to Miss Arendelle have mastered the art of walking and smiling simultaneously while wearing heels.... (yeah, sometimes we get articles on Mr Narnia, but the VAST majority is female-centred.) Mabalu (talk) 02:27, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete The coverage is nowhere near enough to pass GNG. Winning a sub-national beauty pageant is not enough for notability. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 15:46, 28 July 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.