Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/LeBron James Arena


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to St. Vincent–St. Mary High School. An explanation as to the reasoning behind the close is clearly owed. There were ultimately no substantive policy-based arguments to keep the article in its current form, and, indeed, none either to delete it. The (second) nomination states baldly that they "would not in any way oppose a redirect" to the school (although in the event, no argument along this line was presented). There was only a single !keep vote (made, mind you, twice), and that was cogently dismantles via reference to WP:V. The remaining !votes proposing the merge were policy based as well as dovetailing WP:ATD. For the record, I think the reason WikiProject Event Venues/Sports task force/Notability did not find much traction was not only the fact that (as noted in the discussion) it is an essay, but also that - notwithstanding the questions raised as to whether at least one of the hosted teams is actually notable - but it also says itself that notability rests on its own criteria "and if they otherwise fulfill the requirements of WP:V"- which, again unfortunately, the community has decided the article does not. (non-admin closure)  >SerialNumber  54129 ...speculates 14:17, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

LeBron James Arena

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

the only notable thing about this facility is its benefactor, which means this fails WP:1E and the coverage in detail seems to be all related to the fact that LeBron put up the dough. There seems to be some question as to whether the presence of minor league professional sports teams at the facility somehow elevates it to notability; I do not believe it does. I would not in any way oppose a redirect to the school, where most of the needed coverage of this facility seems to already be in place. John from Idegon (talk) 21:47, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep I disagree. The tenants (specifically the Cardinals) are also notable, given as the NAPB is supposed to be a more prestigious league. Besides, it is home to two pro basketball teams. I might also add that WP:1E refers to people, not places. --Sparkyb10123 (talk) 21:51, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:15, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:16, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment WP:1E applies to people, and this is not a person;, do you have an alternative rationale? - The Bushranger One ping only 22:30, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll withdraw this, as it seems you are both saying that the presence of a minor league basketball team elevates this facility to notability. Query For  and :  If not for the connection to the basketball teams, would you consider this a notable place; and if not what rationale would you use? Also, feel free to close this.  I will if I have time (@ work) John from Idegon (talk) 22:35, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * *wobbles hand* I'm not sure it's notable, per se, just that WP:1E shouldn't be used for subjects that are not people. This may be something best WP:BOLDly merged into the school article. - The Bushranger One ping only
 * Comment - I've struck my withdrawal and amended my rationale. Let's just let this run. John from Idegon (talk) 23:02, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep I do believe that professional sports elevates it to notability. For example, most minor league baseball stadiums wouldn't be notable without their teams, because otherwise they don't play host to anything notable. I do not believe a redirect would be sufficient, because it would not be detailed enough about it in the context of said teams (and LeBron's donation) without taking up a significant portion of the article. So at that point there might as well be a separate article. --Sparkyb10123 (talk) 23:24, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hey, you only get to vote once. Please strike one Keep. And while I am here, what is it you are basing your belief in? Thanks. John from Idegon (talk) 23:35, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment Sorry about that. I guess what I am trying to say is that a two professional sports teams use this place, and it is the only pro sports arena in Akron, so I think it warrants it's own article --Sparkyb10123 (talk) 23:40, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * So I'm going to take that to mean you know of no guideline that indicates the use of an arena by a minor league franchise is indicative of notability. Here's my problem with that: Coverage of minor league sports is generally strictly local in nature. That meager coverage will generally not include any discussion of the venue other than name checks. The fact that this facility was built at by and primarily for a private institution by nature limits the coverage it has received. A public facility will garner ongoing coverage of its construction, funding and the various political issues that go along with it. This facility is not very large (my alma mater in Indiana has a much larger gym and it isn't even a big basketball school), it isn't architeurally significant. Perhaps I'm wrong but I haven't found much on it beyond its connection with LeBron. And IMO, that's much more about LeBron than this building. John from Idegon (talk) 04:19, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:01, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Actually, WikiProject Event Venues/Sports task force/Notability does say that pro sports makes a venue notable. --Sparkyb10123 (talk) 13:34, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge to St. Vincent–St. Mary High School. I'm not convinced it meets WP:GEOFEAT on its own.  I also dispute that the Ohio Cardinals should be considered notable at this time; however there's no point in an AfD now when we can wait to see if their first match happens on schedule. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 21:05, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't know, I just think there's too much to be merged, especially considering WikiProject Event Venues/Sports task force/Notability. I know it's not *technically* a guideline, but I think it's solid. --Sparkyb10123 (talk) 21:23, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't see WP:WEIGHT issues at all for a merge. The facility is primarily for the school, it would take one line and references to add that the minor league teams play there, and simply a change in dates and source when they leave. (Which if they are successful, they will - this is a tiny venue.) If the minor league teams have footer templates, they don't push WEIGHT much in an article as long as they are defaulted to collapse. John from Idegon (talk) 12:03, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, who mentioned anything about WP:WEIGHT? --Sparkyb10123 (talk) 18:13, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
 * You did, ...if "I don't know, I just think there's too much to be merged..." didn't refer to WEIGHT viz the school's article, what were you trying to say? John from Idegon (talk) 04:39, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh I see what you mean --Sparkyb10123 (talk) 14:14, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge to article on the high school.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:55, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I am assuming, since nobody else has mentioned it, that none of you believe that WikiProject Event Venues/Sports task force/Notability is applicable here. While I understand that it is not an official guideline, I am curious as to why you don't think it is applicable. --Sparkyb10123 (talk) 16:49, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –&#8239;Joe (talk) 13:50, 15 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.