Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Leather Pride flag


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Seems like there's a general consensus to suggest that the topic is notable. Of course, any potential editorial decisions should be discussed at the article's talk page. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 13:55, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Leather Pride flag

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

With all due respect to the community in question, this article as written fails verifiability: no reliable sources (one dead link and three self-referencing articles). Has it NEVER been written about in the mainstream press (and by mainstream I mean The Advocate, Washington Blade, Wisconsin Light and the like)? Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  04:26, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment – However there is reference to it in Scholarly books as shown here . Thanks. ShoesssS Talk 13:45, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Strong keep -- the sources are not "self-referencing". They happen to come from the same source, but I'd consider them reliable, pending additional sources.  Not a good reason deletion, IMO. HalJor (talk) 05:08, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep: notable topic and plenty of google hits that can yield sources. Jonathunder (talk) 13:27, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge/redirect – To LGBT symbols. The LGBT symbols piece is a listing of symbols and symbolates for which the Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) communities have identified and by which they demonstrate unity, pride, shared values, and allegiance to one another.  Thanks. ShoesssS Talk 13:41, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep After looking at books and news sources, I conclude that this has achieved notability as a symbol of a particular community, and that display of a symbolic banner in rallies and in merchandise is a way of expressing unity and showing instant identification, more so than one would find in a lot of groups. For example, one doesn't see an official Democratic Party flag.   Wikipedia does have a log of vexilological articles about flags and coats of arms, and I see no reason to delete the article.  Mandsford (talk) 12:50, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * comment - then could somebody please put some of that into this article? Right now, the only sources are things like leatherarchive.com! -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  15:36, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - Hey -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;  personally I would have Merged /Redirected this piece already, in that it has enough coverage to support its own article and be included here.  However, it really can not be expanded upon, therefore for ever a stub.  On the other hand, it is a great addition to LGBT symbols and if used as a search criteria (here on Wikipedia), would be easily found .  Possibly, the best of both worlds. ShoesssS Talk 23:58, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - Even though the article is unlikely to be significantly expanded (aside from additional references), it seems too long to qualify as a stub. Also, I question that the flag truly qualifies as LGBT.  One of the references on this article  states: "Although the flag is often common in the gay community, it is not a gay-only symbol."  The reference *that* site gives no longer gives this quote, but I believe the statement to be accurate.  I'd pursue additional references for that to be included here, and if it is not exclusively LGBT, it should not be merged into LGBT symbols. HalJor (talk) 00:54, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - I am more than happy to have it as a stand alone piece.  But personally, I think that would be a disservice to the symbol.  I search criteria, a common visitor here at Wikipedia, would  have to apply the specific term “Leather Pride flag” before finding the appropriate article.  However as you stated in your comments; “…it is often common in the gay community’ a merge/redirect would offer that same individual, searching for gay symbols a better chance at reading the history of the flag.  Hope that helps were I am coming from.  Thanks. ShoesssS Talk 01:09, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know, once the image of a flag gets on Wikipedia, it ends up in nearly every relevant article. Despite having the word leather in it, the article isn't necessarily going to hide.  As with the leather subculture article (I think that's what it's called), there's the picture and it links to this page.  Mandsford (talk) 18:26, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No Merge to LGBT symbols - As evidence that the flag is not-specifically gay, see the "About" page for the Society of Janus here:, which clearly shows the flag and states that "Janus is a pansexual organization; we are open to persons of all genders, sexual orientations (straight/gay/bisexual/etc.) and roles (top/dom/switch/bottom/slave/etc.)." The flag also appears on the pansexual article BDSM.  I'll grant that if one is searching Wikipedia for "Leather Pride flag", they'd have to enter that term -- just as with virtually any other article.  (Want to read about Michael Jackson?  Search for Michael Jackson.)  But the flag applies to people of all genders and orientations.  It should not be merged into a gay-specific article (LGBT symbols).


 * Keep I'm sure there are sources to verify this entry. I've seen this flag around for years and years. 68.101.143.168 (talk) 04:44, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.