Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lee Melchionni (4th nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep.  Sandstein  20:05, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Lee Melchionni
AfDs for this article: 
 * - (View AfD) (View log)

I can't figure out all these Wikipedia steps but this is absurd.

Observe the following claims that were made supporting Lee's notability in past debates.

1st AFD: The JJ Redick article says the Melchionni was a co-captain of the Duke team. In addition he has signed a contract to play professionally in Italy for Benetton Treviso[1] which is one of the top European teams, having produced current #1 pick Andrea_Bargnani.

Rebuttal: He doesn't play for Benetton Treviso. He never did play for Benetton Treviso. If Benetton Treviso kept a roster of 30 players he would not be on that roster. He was a co-captain of Duke? This is true. You know who was a co-captain in 2001 when Duke won the NCAA Tournament? J.D. Simpson. A walk-on. Who did not play in games 2-6 of said tournament. Co-captain at Duke is a title that does not mean anything except that that player is probably a senior.

1st AFD: Anyone who plays in every game for Duke is notable enough for me, and the pro contract seals the deal.

Rebuttal: Pro contract seals the deal? Nope. Played in every game? Yikes. According to this http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/gamelog?playerId=11142&year=2006 he was used for less than 20 minutes in 10 of the last 11 ACC games of his career. Am I the only one who's concerned that the article on Melchionni is longer than that of a player who averaged 15 mpg in 71 games he played for the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls, the winningest team of all time? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Wennington

1st AFD: college athletes per WP:BIO

Rebuttal: huh?

2nd AFD: The JJ Redick article says the Melchionni was a co-captain of the Duke team. In addition he has signed a contract to play professionally in Italy for Benetton Treviso[1] which is one of the top European teams, having produced current #1 pick Andrea_Bargnani. In addition I find it troubling that this is being resubmitted for AfD when the first nomination just concluded a couple days ago.

Rebuttal: The "facts" cited here have already been rebutted. And now it's been 2 years, and this article still looks ridiculous.

2nd AFD: Borderline college players who get a contract offer from Europe tend to wait a while to be sure that an NBA team doesn't pick them up as a free agent. That's not very likely to happen in his case, so signing with Benetton is a formality. He'll be playing pro on one of the best European teams unless he gets a better offer. BTW, as above, I also question why this was AfD'd again so soon.

Rebuttal: Wow. In his own words: "Since graduating from Duke in the spring of 2006, I played professionally in Italy. I played for a team just outside of Milan. You can't really have any complaints when you are getting paid to play a game you would play for free. It was a great experience to have my first year out of college and something I will never forget. However, it certainly was not Duke Basketball. I recently took a job with Wassserman Media Group in Los Angeles to begin working under Arn Tellem as a young sports agent."

additional rebuttal: oddly enough, the team just outside of Milan that he played for in 2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket_Draghi_Novara has him on the 2006-07 roster but does not list him under "notable past players" on Wikipedia. Not only that, but out of those notable past players (i.e. people who played well for this small Italian squad), only 4 of the 12 American players have their own Wikipedia page. UnnotableWorldFigure (talk) 19:40, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

2nd AFD: against nom

Rebuttal: Huh?

2nd AFD: U.S. college stars who play professionally in Europe are notable.

Rebuttal: College stars are people who average more than 20 minutes per game in the ACC tournament. A college star would be someone like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Scott_(basketball) who had the most points ever in an ACC season, yet whose article is the same length as Lee Melchionni's.

3rd AFD: I would probably approve a credible article about any top 100 recruit. Encyclopedic interest is augmented by lineage.

Rebuttal: If he was really a top 100 player in high school he would have been on scholarship his freshman year. I've heard this claim about him being a top 100 recruit in high school and it just doesn't mesh with reality whatsoever.

3rd AFD: I think any recent Blue Devils co-captain deserves an article, even if he never plays professionally. Duke is a major, major basketball program, and it receives more national tv coverage than many (most?) NBA teams.

Rebuttal: Better get started on that J.D. Simpson article. Duke 1998-2001 accomplished a heck of a lot more than 2003-2006. (and before anyone says this, I will absolutely NOT write any article about J.D. Simpson)

3rd AFD: While he doesn't meet the "have played in a fully professional league" clause, he certainly passes the "The person has been the subject of published secondary sources" test quite easily.

Rebuttal: You got me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_plumber

3rd AFD: per nom

Rebuttal: What?

3rd AFD: The sum of available third party references fulfills WP:BIO requirements with ease.

Rebuttal: Is anybody writing anything about him now, besides me? The top 10 google hits include a link to some Duke student's blog. The defense rests.UnnotableWorldFigure (talk) 19:40, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 12:42, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep I don't like Duke basketball (or Duke or just plain basketball for that matter) but I believe that he got enough widespread news coverage through his career to warrant an article.--Paul McDonald (talk) 13:30, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Collegiate NCAA basketball is a big deal in the USA.  (As far as I am concerned, the college game is the real game of basketball, and the NBA version is a grotesque parody.)  It is generally speaking the highest level of amateur basketball, and generates a prodigious amount of coverage in reliable sources.  So just about any member of a NCAA college basketball team is going to meet the biography notability guidelines easily, especially when the player plays for a major basketball school like Duke University.  Moreover, the notability he earned playing for Duke does not fade just because his college career is over and he hasn't remained in the public light. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 14:33, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Duke sucks! (Sorry, I couldn't resist). Seriously, have good coverage in external sources. Wily D  14:45, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You don't have this place in your bookmarks by any chance, do you? NeoChaosX (talk, edits) 21:18, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong keep. I don't like Duke, I don't like basketball, I don't even like sports, but I know that lots of other people care about this stuff. And seriously, four AfD nominations? At what point does an article just get immunity from what amounts to basic harassment? Fumoses (talk) 14:57, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Survey says no. Sorry, eh? Wily D  15:05, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Last 2 AFDs were keep decisions and I see nothing here to dispute that. Let's not make this an annual event. 23skidoo (talk) 19:03, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep He clearly passes the general notability guideline. . I wouldn't say that all D1 basketball players are notable - most basketballers from my alma mater aren't - but Melchionni was a productive contributor for one of the most-watched college teams in the country. Zagalejo^^^ 01:25, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions.   -- raven1977 (talk) 02:12, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Basketball-related deletion discussions.   -- raven1977 (talk) 02:12, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:03, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator's reasons, which I'll note have been entirely unaddressed. Two of the 'keeps' don't really do anything more than say, 'It's been kept before, so we must keep it now.' --CalendarWatcher (talk) 05:02, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The nominator's reasons aren't grounded in any policies or guidelines. Melchionni quite clearly meets the general notability guideline (non-trivial coverage in multiple, independent sources). Zagalejo^^^ 06:56, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.