Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Legends of Kallisti


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. -- Cirt (talk) 00:25, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Legends of Kallisti

 * – ( View AfD View log ) •

Unsourced, unsourceable (tried and failed), fails WP:GNG. chaos5023 (talk) 00:49, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions.  —chaos5023 (talk) 01:07, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Computing-related deletion discussions.  —chaos5023 (talk) 01:08, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletion discussions.  chaos5023 (talk) 01:10, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete as I was unable to find any reliable sources necessary to establish notability. Cullen328 (talk) 02:41, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - Wow, this was an unexpected sight on the AfD list for today. This may stretch the bounds of credibility a bit, but I am actually the "Izzy" person named in the article...or at least I was, a lifetime ago.  I can safely and confidently attest that our notoriety never reached beyond simple directory listings at places like TMC (mudconnect.com) and the like.  Being the one of (perhaps the) still-running DikuMUDs is nice, but we were never discussed or covered in any way within the MUD community for it, much less the wider world of true reliable sources.  I'm wonder if I'm still banned. :) Tarc (talk) 14:07, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - Mud and website is still active and people still play the game. You can always reach the administrators of the game by following the link included in the article and using the 'contact us' link which will send email to actively monitored list.  Izzy your not banned, unless Sam decides to reinstate that.  I am Flux the current head coder/admin. 10 November 2010.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.106.103.249 (talk) 19:13, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, Flux. I'm afraid none of this is relevant.  You should probably read Existence ≠ Notability, which is about a fallacy regarding what topics Wikipedia is supposed to have articles on (that you seem to be under a mistaken impression regarding, here and in the request where you contested the previous proposed deletion of this article).  What you mainly need to know in order to work effectively toward the retention of this article is in Notability, but in a nutshell it's that we need reliable sources, independent of LoK, that discuss the MUD in some degree of depth.  I do a lot of work sourcing MUD articles, and I tried to find sourcing for LoK and failed, so I personally don't anticipate you're going to be able to turn up much, but I'd be delighted to be proven wrong. &mdash;chaos5023 (talk) 19:50, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * OK. If references and reviews from mudstats, mudconnector and active public facebook group page are not adequate then remove at will.  I did a simple search for mud games here on Wikipedia, and see pages for specific individual MUDs (that aren't active any longer) that only have external references from mud lists without even a review that are not scheduled for deletion.  Perhaps it's not intended but your comment comes across a little haughty.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.106.103.249 (talk) 20:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * User-submitted content of any kind doesn't contribute to notability, so no, mudstats, TMC and facebook are no use, unless you had an official (staff-generated, not user-submitted) TMC review or a Mud of the Month article, which I would say helps with notability. The "other muds" thing is one of the canonical "arguments to avoid in deletion discussions", generally known as WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, and doesn't have any bearing on this AfD, but still, I'd like to know what articles you're talking about, because completely unsourced ones should be somewhat thin on the ground at this point.  (Take a look at WikiProject Video games/MUD for the best extant survey of MUD-related articles and what kind of shape they're in, though; the ones you found may already be in the "in need of urgent attention" group.)  Sorry you don't like my tone; whatever's coming across in it, it's nothing personal. &mdash;chaos5023 (talk) 21:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * User-submitted reviews do not contribute to notability but staff provided reviews do seems a little odd to me but it does not matter. TMC page for Kallisti is a staff provided summary/review: http://www.mudconnect.com/mud-bin/adv_search.cgi?Mode=MUD&mud=Kallisti+MUD .  My reference to other mud pages not meeting the stated criteria was intended as a note of perceived inconsistency in the policy stated and reason for my own prior confusion on the subject, not a reason for keeping the LoK page.  A very quick search found these articles that would seem to follow your criteria for deletion, most of which at least mention the need for citation but seem to have avoided the proposed-deletion fate:
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequent_(MUD)
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(MUD)
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MajorMUD
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkness_Falls_(computer_game)
 * I believe the LoK wikipedia page had informational value (albeit historical and very minor), but I will no longer protest the removal so go ahead and delete the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.106.103.249 (talk) 21:49, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.