Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lehigh Valley Rollergirls


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 01:07, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Lehigh Valley Rollergirls

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Non-notable amateur sports league, no more notable than a Little League or American Legion league. The Mark of the Beast (talk) 21:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 22:32, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 22:32, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pennsylvania-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 22:32, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete: seems like the only source covering them is their local newspaper, The Morning Call. Doesn't pass GNG. GrainyMagazine (talk) 23:16, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Bryce  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 07:12, 10 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment Please explain why The Morning Call is not a reliable source. See WP:IRS--DThomsen8 (talk) 14:10, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:ORG (the applicable guideline here): "On the other hand, attention solely from local media, or media of limited interest and circulation, is not an indication of notability; at least one regional, national, or international source is necessary." Fram (talk) 14:30, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * As I posted on your talk page back in October, "Searching through the history and talk page archives [of WP:ORG] clarifies its intended meaning: coverage by "tiny newspapers" with circulations of one or two thousand is unlikely to demonstrate notability; regional newspapers such as the Morning Call with circulations around 100,000 were never intended to be covered by this." Warofdreams talk 00:17, 12 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete, no evidence that this is a notable team. Even if we consider the Morning Call to be more than a local source (it is local, but with a large circulation), it is not really sufficient, multiple such sources would be needed. Fram (talk) 14:30, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Please consider listing this deletion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women's sport--DThomsen8 (talk) 14:42, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I've now listed it there. Anyone can inform relevant projects of AfDs, provided that they follow the advice in WP:CANVASS (word things neutrally, don't spam, etc). Warofdreams talk 11:06, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep, member of the Women's Flat Track Derby Association, which is the highest level of competition in the sport, so has a claim to notability. Coverage in the Morning Call is a good start, a newspaper with a significant circulation and a large number of articles focusing on the league.  There's also coverage in this rather more obscure newspaper, and a clear indication  that there was significant coverage in The Express-Times (actual article sadly not on line).  While this isn't a huge range of sources, it meets the primary notability criterion: "A [team]... is notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in secondary sources. Such sources must be reliable, and independent of the subject." Warofdreams talk 00:17, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Being a member of the WFTDA is not really indicative of notability, although for a US team not being a member would be more indicative of not being notable. A flat organisation with 130 members is not the "highest" level in the normal sense, it is basically the only level. It is not like in soccer or other organised team sports, where you have a top league of 10 or 20 teams (which is then the highest level of competition in that country), and lots of lower levels. Fram (talk) 09:18, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't want to claim too much for WFTDA membership (clearly, a substantial number of leagues hold full membership), but most - perhaps all - of the full members do have multiple, independent, reliable sources covering them. Membership of the highest level of competition - however broad that is - is a claim to notability (not necessarily one which will always convince, but a claim nonetheless).  The members are clearly more likely to attract notice than a Little League team (and attendances for bouts of members, where given, vary from a few hundred to a few thousand, which I suspect is more than for a Little League team).  The WFTDA has an Apprentice Program, which is essentially a lower level of membership, and I agree that US leagues with Apprentice membership, or which are not WFTDA members, are much less likely to meet notability standards. Warofdreams talk 16:10, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment to DThomsen8: I think Fram said it for me, but I never said that The Morning Call was not notable; I was only implying that it alone is not enough to establish notability. GrainyMagazine (talk) 01:52, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Lean keep: Member of the WFTDA. Other newspaper sources include "WFTDA Welcomes nine new rookie teams, Atlanta Examiner (GA) - November 1, 2010, Length: 336 words (Estimated printed pages: 2)" and "Last chance to see DC Rollergirls at home this season, Washington Examiner (DC) - May 6, 2010, Length: 438 words (Estimated printed pages: 2)".  I'm in Australia so have limited access to better USA sources. Suspect they exist. --LauraHale (talk) 20:40, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.