Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Leonid Afremov


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. And salt.  Sandstein  08:32, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Leonid Afremov

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Failing WP:GNG, WP:NARTIST. Possible WP:PROMO. None of the sources are truly reliable or independent. They appear to be blogs or - given how they are written - may be advertorial pieces closely linked to the subject. They are not suitable as independent verification of claims or alleged facts in this article. One would have thought there'd be an obituary at least in mainstream media in either Spanish, Russian or Hebrew. Other points have been made by other editors on the talk page of this article. pseudonym Jake Brockman talk 23:58, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. pseudonym Jake Brockman talk 23:58, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. pseudonym Jake Brockman talk 23:58, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. pseudonym Jake Brockman talk 23:58, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mexico-related deletion discussions. pseudonym Jake Brockman talk 23:58, 18 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Note I should have checked the logs before: the article has been A7'd twice and G12'd three times over the last 7 years. The G12's were for copyvios from the subject's web shop. pseudonym Jake Brockman talk 00:09, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete there are a bunch of trivial mentions, some of which are self-published. He (weirdly) appears multiple times in fiction with phrases like "on the walls were paintings in the unmistabable style of Leonid Afremov." Let's face it, this guy is basically unheard of and has none of the typical markers of artistic success. Given the multiple A7 and G12 violations, my guess is that many mentions (like this self-published book mention) were paid or arranged placements. (I actually tried to insert another example from amarketnews.com but it triggered the spam blacklist!)ThatMontrealIP (talk) 02:18, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Hello, I’m from Buenos Aires, Argentina. I created the article last year. As for me, you can do whatever you think is correct with the page. I will just give my opinion in my best possible English. I’m an Afremov collector and I know very well his work. For every original artwork you probably have 600 reproductions or more. Afremov is a very well known palette knife artist. Just google “palette knife paintings” or “palette knife artists” and you’ll see many of his artworks on first pages. If he wasn't known enough, he wouldn't have wikipedia articles in 7 different languages. The artist was an extremely shy person, business was and is handled by his two sons (a very ‘particular’ business, I prefer not to give opinion on how sales are handled). Afremov never gave interviews, he was like an ogre, bad temper, but was extremely passionate with his work. You can see lot’s of videos of him working on his Facebook page. He has 312K followers. Lot’s of Hotels have his prints in rooms including Hilton. Lot’s of people have screensaver with his peaceful and colorful paintings. Once again, do whatever you think is correct with the article but I think he is enough known in the art market to keep him. Carsamar (talk) 05:07, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * it's enlightening what you said about his work being in hotels. HIs website (I guess is is the studio that sells copies of hiss work) has an FAQ on what can be done with his paintings, for example: The bright and yet modest colors are perfect to set an atmosphere of contemplation in your study; It will serve as a good complement to the strict office style by contrasting the usual serious atmosphere. If you’re a hotel manager or a restaurant owner, you can decorate one of your halls with this painting. There is lots of text out there similar to this, but there is very little critical coverage of his work by reviewers or writers of books, magazines and newspapers. If no one has written at length about his art, he fails our notability tests, even if copies of his paintings might be in thousands of hotels and offices. Lastly, Facebook followers are of no value in determining notability, and the art market is extremely rarely used here in determining notability. When it is, it usually is because publications have written about the art market value. We don't care about the value, but we do care that people are writing about the artist in reliable sources. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 07:17, 19 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete - Promotional article on a commercial production artist. Does not meet GNG or NARTIST guidelines due to lack of SIGCOV in reliable, independent sources. Netherzone (talk) 13:33, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't be unfair. You're stigmatizing the artist. What would be the problem if he has a commercial business? There are plenty of artists that make business with their artworks, indeed almost all artists. On the other hand, where do you you see a promotional article? And... Do you think an unknown artist would have Wikipedia articles in 7 different languages?
 * Having Wikipedia articles in other languages is not a threshold criteria for English Wikipedia. Each language project has their own rules and guidelines for establishing notability. They are not necessarily compatible. Wikipedia itself is not sufficient to establish notability. The essence remains: there is nothing (that I have seen yet) that is independent, significant coverage in a reliable source - the base criteria for an article on English Wikipedia. I totally understand that you feel passionate about the artist since you are a collector as you say. I can see your dedication about the article given this is the very first articles you drafted in your sandbox shortly after you joined and waited patiently for over half a year until you made over 500 other edits on your other topic, Motorbikes, before publishing this protected article. Wikipedia has many people who are passionate about their work here - that's why rules are in place about thresholds for notability, conflicts of interest, etc. pseudonym Jake Brockman talk 23:52, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * @Netherzone mentioned "Promotional article", now you say "conflicts of interest". I'm just a collector from Buenos Aires and yes you're right, I signed up more than a year ago, I wanted to create the article. I realized it was semi-protected so I started cooperating with Motorbike articles to reach 500 edits. Please tell me which part of the article has an advertisement or promotional message. I have nothing to do with Afremov business, indeed I disagree the way they do business (I personally had too many problems with the family while gathering my collection). I just admire the artist, that's all. Once again sorry for my English, article was written with the help of a native english friend. Please try to be constructive, not destructive. I invite you all to research more about Leonid Afremov and improve the article. Carsamar (talk) 02:48, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * We've all researched him before !voting. And we have also seen hundreds of other artist articles. The fact is that he is a type of artist (largely commercial) who does not get much in-depth coverage. We don't count the things you have mentioned (Facebook, articles on other wikis, market success). We just count significant coverage in good publications. Conflict of interest was mentioned because if you have bought Leonid paintings and are collecting them, as you say, you are less neutral than those who have no relation to his work. All of these things are just facts and are not meant to be personal.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 03:37, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * If you are as you say, "I’m an Afremov collector" then you have a conflict of interest WP:COI. If his work is in your collection, then you have a financial stake in it. Additionally, none of the article sourcing can be considered significant coverage in reliable sources WP:RS, they are blog portfolio sites, not serious critical/analytical art historical articles or reviews in major newspapers, books or art magazines. He does not pass criteria WP:NARTIST. Netherzone (talk) 16:38, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm a private collector, not an art gallery. Why do you assume the purpose of a collector is to make money? That is quite offensive. If I had a collection of Honda motorbikes and I created an article of a new model it would be conflict of interest too? That's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard. Do whatever you wish to do with the article. I've given my point of view. I don't agree with many things I've read but I understand you're following rules here.


 * Keep Leonid Afremov is a well known and prolific artist. It's a shame the pedants here are so eager to dump him for such and such silly reasons.Carsamar (talk) 20:05, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Striking second !vote., you can only !vote once.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 02:52, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Apologies, the above was an IP pretending to be Carsamar.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 18:16, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete — Per rationale & per . Celestina007 (talk) 20:49, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete One of the sources, famouspainters.net claims that "The Museum of Modern Art (MOMA) calls Leonid Afremov as one of the greatest and well-known modern impressionists of our time." There must be some other museum of modern art that I'm not aware of than MoMA or SFMOMA then. wallsauce.com sells wallpaper. wooarts is a blog. Vexations (talk) 13:21, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete for all these reasons, and because totally creeped out by the fact that after I did a search for this artist, I'm getting targeted Facebook ads saying "Leonid Afremov passed away. Now his family sale the collection, prices start at $149" Fishy fishy fishy. Theredproject (talk) 17:53, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * And Salt given the persistent recreation noted in the first comment (by the nom)Theredproject (talk) 17:55, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Note Can someone please explain me what is going on? I didn't vote a second time. How can that happen? Someone should check that. I'm just a collector, gave my point of view and that's all. My life won't change if the article exists or not. Please someone explain me how someone can write something signing with my username. Thank you Carsamar (talk) 18:09, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * HI. It is good you noticed that. An IP editor was pretending to be you! Perhaps an admin can block that IP for impersonation at AfD. I'll collapse the entire comment.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 18:16, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you Carsamar (talk) 19:00, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete -- I was the first to tag the article and it bugs me how I'm now followed on Facebook and Amazon by what appears to be an advertising campaign that looks to use wikipedia to bolster it. InvictaHOG (talk) 18:19, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment I think Salt may be appropriate here, given a) the comments about about marketing campaigns, b) the recent additions of promotional material (now reverted) and c) the general contentious nature of this artist's business, fans and detractors, as can be found by searching "Leonid Alfremov scam" (his work was banned from Reddit, which is quite a feat... they are pretty open minded), and d) the two A7 and three G12 deletions in the past seven years of the article. It is not going to hurt to force someone to go through AFC or draft if this article is indeed ever recreated with valid sources.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 08:33, 25 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.