Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Leopard (heraldry)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. No arguments for deletion aside from the nominator. Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:50, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Leopard (heraldry)

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This article is full of misinformation, and based on a distinction made in foreign languages, but not in English. The information in this article is already covered in the article Lion(heraldry). I could rewrite the article completely, but I don't think the leopard as a charge is notable enough. For a source, that such a charge is a lion and that leopard now refers to the spotted feline try the Oxford Guide to Heraldry by Woodcock and Robinson, page 203 Tinynanorobots (talk) 17:14, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. The meaning of the term has changed: early on (until the late 14th century) the term meant a lion passant guardant in English heraldry, but after the 15th century these were more often termed lion passant guardant, leaving the door open for the unmaned, spotted species to eventually enter the heraldic lexicon under the term leopard. To confuse matters, the heraldic term leopard continues to refer to a lion passant guardant in Francophonic heraldry.  Then there are the terms lion leopardé and leopard lioné.  I think regardless of its notability in terms of Google hits or number of appearances in Siebmacher's, this is a murky enough topic to warrant a fuller explanation than can be given in a few lines.  Besides that, I think the charge's appearance in English and Danish royal heraldry alone makes it WP:Notable.  I would support merging into Lion (heraldry), but I would prefer simply rewriting this article with high quality sources, and including a "main article" hatnote in the Lion (heraldry) section to direct readers to this article. Wilhelm Meis (&#9742; Diskuss &#124; &#x270D; Beiträge) 04:26, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Natural leopards are quite rare in heraldry, and have no special rules and we certainly don't have separate articles for deers or dragons. Redirecting this article to lions would just confuse the matter more. How it is done currently, and what I want to fix is the confusion created with people suggesting that leopard is still an acceptable term for a lion passant guardant. Tinynanorobots (talk) 23:59, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Relisting comment: Malformed debate found— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 01:47, 1 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 01:47, 1 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 02:53, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

What do you want me to say? This article is about two heraldic charges, the leopard and the lion passant guardant. In languages such as French and German, the lion passant guardant is known as a leopard. The depictions of Panthera pardus are referred to as leopard in English, but usually referred to as Panthera pardus or zoologische leopard(in German). I don't think I have ever heard a heraldic charge referred to as zoological. There are other cases in heraldry where there has been heralds distinguish between an animal as depicted in nature and in heraldry. For example; the heraldic tyger and the seahorse. The natural tiger, is blazoned as a bengal tiger, and the natural seahorse using its Latin name. The Leopard (heraldry) article is about heraldic terminology and jargon but is adopted from a German language article, and relies on cognates and close to literal translation. Anyway, the natural, or zoologische leopard is a modern and not very common charge, does not need its own article. Lion passant guardant, is however an important charge and may justify its own article, although I thing articles on heraldic charges are not very good and tend to be lists, and there is no avoiding repeating information on the Lion (heraldry) article. Tinynanorobots (talk) 17:37, 7 May 2012 (UTC) 
 * Keep The term is so generally used in this meaning that an article is appropriate.  DGG ( talk ) 15:29, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   17:53, 9 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep See Edward III and the symbol of the Leopard for an extensive account of the matter. The article needs expansion to include all this material but that's ordinary editing per our editing policy, not deletion. Warden (talk) 18:43, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.