Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Leopold Frankenberger, Sr.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.   A rbitrarily 0   ( talk ) 21:59, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Leopold Frankenberger, Sr.

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I proposed this page for deletion with the concern, "His only claim to notability is as father of Leopold Frankenberger, Jr., who in turn is notable only for rumors that he may have been Adolf Hitler's biological grandfather. Fails WP:GNG." Prod was contested by User:DGG, who proposed merger with Frankenberger, Jr.

I note, however, that the latter page is also unsourced. There is apparently some dispute about whether the junior Frankenberger actually existed. It has been proposed (on Talk:Leopold Frankenberger, Jr.) that information about the junior be merged to Adolf Hitler.

Merging the unsourced information from 'Sr.' to the controversial and unsourced 'Jr.' article may serve to prop up problematic assertions without verifying them.

I note, by the way, that Leopold Frankenberger, Sr. was created by an indefinitely blocked user, but do not assert that this is a reason for deletion. Rather, the lack of sources, lack of notability, and troubling lack of verifiability argue for deletion. Cnilep (talk) 15:44, 7 January 2010 (UTC) By the way, the creator of this article is indef blocked as a vandal and sockpuppet. Alio The Fool 21:16, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  —Cnilep (talk) 15:52, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions.  —Cnilep (talk) 15:52, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. The father of somebody who may have been the father of the father of somebody famous. Good grief. That's one of the most tenuous claims for notability I've ever seen. Utterly and completely non-notable. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:13, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * merge as suggested, and then nominate the other article for deletion and I will defend it there. I see they are discussed in the rather voluminous literature on Hitler's biography, judging by G books, but we can discuss it at that time.   The significance of this is the intriguing but very unlikely possibility that he has some Jewish ancestry. Please note that I am not defending this as a separate article, as Necrothesp says, the connection is too remote.   DGG ( talk ) 17:34, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: many of those sources mention "a Jewish family named Frankenberger" (quoting from Fest 1999, The face of the Third Reich, but the phrase is repeated verbatim in several others), but none that I consulted mention Leopold Frankenberger, Sr. by name. Cnilep (talk) 18:37, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete; fails WP:N, and as stated in Notability_(people), simply being related to a famous (or infamous) figure does not grant the subject automatic notability. KaySL (talk) 18:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Daily mail article. Merge per DGG. Ikip 19:50, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Note that the Daily Mail says "his [Adolf Hitler's] paternal grandfather was a Jewish merchant called Leopold Frankenberger" with no junior or senior designator. The claim is that L. Frankenberger, Jr. may have been the father of Alois Hitler and therefore the grandfather of Adolf. Hueber (2008) also appears to mention a Leopold Frankenberger (no Jr. or Sr.) in a discussion of Hitler (per Google Books' snippet view). I still see no independent notability for the elder Frankenberger. Cnilep (talk) 21:41, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. I was going to suggest a merge of his basic biographical information to Junior's article, but this article is completely unsourced.  As to notability, he surely doesn't inherit it three generations up from Adolf.  And the See Alsos are a joke too—what does Leopold Frankenberger, Sr. have to do with the Nazi Party or the Aryan Race?   Glenfarclas   ( talk ) 09:53, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge with Alois Hitler. Notability (or notoriety) is not inherited.  The subject was NN and should not have a primary article, though he might be mentioned in another one, justifying a redirect.  Peterkingiron (talk) 22:17, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Claim to notability seems to be that he may have been the father of someone who may have been the grandfather of Adolf Hitler. Even if we had good enough sources to remove those "may"s this would be a totally inadequate reason for keeping, as notability is not inherited, especially three generations back. What is more we do not have those good sources. Merging is not a good option either: the lack of notability and lack of good evidence apply to the information whether it is a free-standing article or part of another article. DGG advocates merging rather than deleting because of "the intriguing but very unlikely possibility that he has some Jewish ancestry". If we were dealing with good evidence that Hitler had Jewish ancestry it would certainly be very notable, but DGG himself says that it is "very unlikely". So we should keep a claim which is almost certainly false because if it were true it would be notable? A strange suggestion: how many other probably false suggestions should Wikipedia keep because if they were true they would be worth keeping? Also DGG's suggestion of merging into another article with the intention of then nominating it for deletion is a questionable one: I do not like procedural manoeuvres of this kind. If the inclusion of the information can be defended then why not defend it now? If it can't then why not delete now? Then Peterkingiron advocates merging, despite himself saying that the subject is non-notable. Admittedly the standard of notability for a mention in another article is lower than that for an article of one's own, but even so nobody has yet made any plausible case for any notability at all of Leopold Frankenberger, Sr. JamesBWatson (talk) 15:37, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete clearly non-notable. Boleyn (talk) 17:48, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete fails to express any notability. Alio The Fool 21:15, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Notability is neither asserted nor shown. Edward321 (talk) 00:34, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.