Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lera Loeb


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep.  Sandstein  15:59, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Lera Loeb

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No consensus on whether WP:A7 applied over at deletion review, but per WP:GNG and the discussion at DRV this person isn't notable enough for a Wikipedia page. SportingFlyer  T · C  10:57, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 11:09, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 11:09, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 20:56, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 20:56, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 20:56, 17 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete – article subject does not meet the WP:BASIC criteria. The Glamour article is written by the article subject, so not independent. I'm not seeing any WP:SIGCOV sources out there. – Levivich 21:34, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per Cunard below. The 2009 Sunday Telegraph article is a solid GNG source, and the 2016 book isn't super in-depth but it's in-depth enough IMO. Meets BASIC criteria. – Levivich 05:36, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * This is incredible. Two articles get written on a woman about how she's a mail-order bride and that's enough for Wikipedia notability. SportingFlyer  T · C  05:38, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * If it makes you feel any better, I'm sure she's kicked a soccer ball at some point in her life. – Levivich  05:51, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The 2,036-word article notes: "Lera Loeb, 27, is a New Yorker, a fashion publicist, a blogger, a young woman with a quick, self-mocking wit, who often gathers with friends in the hipster haven of Williamsburg, Brooklyn, to have a drink or watch the finale of fashion reality shows. She's also a mail-order bride. Originally from Ukraine, poor enough that she considered meat a luxury for special occasions, she's now married to a wealthy man nearly twice her age, whom she met through an international matchmaking service. ... If Lera wants to speak up about her life, it's to tell her own story, one that puts her squarely in the mix, makes her part of the New York hustle that she always dreamt about when she was back in Dnepropetrovsk, a large, grey, industrial city in Ukraine. There she was the daughter of two driven, well-connected doctors, who had little money but high expectations for their children. They sent Lera and her brother, both of them strong students, to one of the best schools in the city, where the curriculum emphasised English and left Lera nearly accentless. ... Her own career has moved surprisingly quickly - her blog, fashionaddictdiary.com, won accolades from Elle magazine and landed her trips to Paris courtesy of Chanel - but she's still hungry 'to make more money, to buy more clothing, to be more successful'."  The article notes: "In the summer of 2009, Glamour magazine ran an article about mail-order marriage written by Lera Loeb, a Ukrainian mail-order bride married to American music producer Steve Loeb.11 Lera was twenty-one and Steve forty-four when they met. According to Lera, the two had an instant connection. 'I didn't expect to find love when I signed up with the agency, but I did,' said Lera. 'I feel very, very lucky.' However, not everyone was so enamored of their relationship. Lera noted that she was shocked by the criticism and hostility directed at her marriage. She explained that in Russia, there is no stigma attached to mail-order marriages. 'In my part of the world, in Russia, that's considered cool if you marry a foreigner. That's every girl's dream.'12 In America the reaction was quite different: 'Most people never think of a 27-year-old career woman like me when they hear the words mail-order bride. They imagine someone who doesn't speak English, who's been shipped in, like property, to be subservient to her husband. ‘Are you allowed to go out on your own?' an acquaintance once asked me. Another person wanted to know whether I had a curfew—seriously. If someone associates me with those kinds of stereotypes, Steve and I both get upset, because it's degrading. But I try not to take it too personally.'13 These types of reactions have made Lera defensive about her marriage, and she has tried to deflect the criticisms by embracing the label 'mail-order bride.' In fact, if you Google 'Lera Loeb,' mail-order bride is the top hit. 'I say it as a joke,' says Lera. 'It's sort of super ironic. That's the attitude I've developed to it.'14 The negative reactions described by Lera are not unusual. Americans are extremely hostile toward the idea of mail-order relationships, and the comments posted in response to Lera's article confirm the widespread discomfort many Americans feel about them. Although Lera stated that she was extremely happy in her relationship and felt very lucky to have married Steve, many readers were unable to view her as anything other than an abused and exploited woman. For example, one reader wrote, 'This guy [her husband] just bought himself a $20,000 pet. She’s probably extremely docile, submissive and attentive. She probably has no say on any facet of their lives. Just stand there and be pretty.' Similarly, another reader wrote, 'Aren't the men who use this 'service' really just looking for a woman that they can isolate and control and who better than a young foreign woman with no friends or family here? The women who sign up for this bother me too but the men positively disgust me.'15" <li>Elle magazine: The Sunday Telegraph notes Lera Loeb's "blog, fashionaddictdiary.com, won accolades from Elle magazine".</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Lera Loeb to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 05:27, 18 November 2019 (UTC)</li></ul>
 * Even if arguendo WP:GNG is satisfied, isn't that a WP:BLP1E for being a mail order bride? SportingFlyer  T · C  05:36, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The sources discuss Lera Loeb's life after her mail-order marriage and do not discuss only the specific event of her mail-order marriage so I don't consider this a WP:BLP1E. Cunard (talk) 00:47, 24 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep There is an old flash video in Time, Weekly Acoustic News, espousing her views about being a mail-order bride. I know, it is the basest article in Wikipedia, but it is notable.   scope_creep Talk  12:03, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Mail-order brides are a dime a dozen (or at least more common than a lot of people are aware of). However this was a unique high profile person who then very publicly revealed to be a mail order bride and they received in-depth coverage and analysis of this unique person which is why I created the article.  Besides the Glamour piece already linked in the article, the Sunday Telegraph one supplied by Cunard is also solid and does satisfy our guidelines.  This is one of the most scrutinized biographies I’ve come across on WP in a long time. Oakshade (talk) 12:26, 20 November 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.