Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lighthouse Chapel International


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Overall consensus herein is for retention. North America1000 00:56, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Lighthouse Chapel International

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I can't find any evidence of notability. Subject of the article fails WP:GNG. All I can see is the evidence that the church exist and not an evidence of notability. The article was fortified with own website and other non-reliable sources apart from Ghana News Agency with a passing mention of the church describing the burgled of a lady Pastor of the church and that is not an assertion of notability. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 12:25, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:06, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:06, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:06, 7 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep I have no prior knowledge of the Ghana News Agency or of Lighthouse Chapel, but I got curios and found 25 results for Lighthouse at ghananewsagency.org, they include 4 reports on the murder of a Lighthouse pastor mentioned by Nom . The folllowing form websites that I know nothing about:  can assemble a "mass choir" of 5,000 .  It is the "fastest growing" churchi in Ghana, and Qodesh is "undoubtedly" the largest church in the country   Also "Wives of pastors urged to satisfy husbands in bed" [http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/entertainment/artikel.php?ID=343037}.
 * Googling onward, The Swazi Observer covered the Bishop's evangelizing visit to Swaziland another story headlined "Thousands cascade to Mavuso" to hear him speak  23 articles in the Swazi Observer in a search on [Heward-Mills], 5 hits in the Times of Swaziland, all seemed to be about that tour, reporting the 5,000 attended one sermon; other details.
 * The Bishop has published several books, came up in simple books google search.
 * I know very little about the church in Ghana, and perhaps that it the point. This church doesn't get covered on the BBC, but it seems to be a big deal in Ghana.E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:16, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
 * None of the sources provided above discussed the church itself in detail. About 80% of the sources provided is about the church pastor and not the church. The church cannot inherit its notability from its pastor or founder. 15% is about the pastor's wife and the remaining 5% are non-reliable sources discussing the pastor's book and tours. Notability cannot be inherited from either the pastor' wife or any members of the church. There is certainly no big deal in 5000 persons attending one sermon and this fall under WP:INSIGNIFICANT, certain minor details are considered to be insignificant. In fact it does not translate into notability. There are hundreads of churches in which over 60,000 people attends sermon every sunday, that itself does not confers notability. The fact that the church pastor's wife was burgled does not translate into notability either. Lastly, A high number of Google hits does not make an article notable. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 23:11, 7 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I am a big fan of WP:BEFORE.  I like to do rudimentary searches before commenting on an AFD. Type "Lighthouse Chapel" into a google books search, skip the books written by the pastor, look instead at books by other authors, such as  Ghana's New Christianity: Pentecostalism in a Globalizing African Economy By Paul Gifford. (This Paul Gifford: ) Substantive coverage.  Paltry article.  Notable topic. KEEP.E.M.Gregory (talk) 00:27, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Here's a validating source . Added it to the page. Haven't actually read any of the books I refer to above, but relevant passages are accessible on books google.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:46, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you said "Haven't actually read any of the books I refer to above. That is why I told you that the books and those sources never discussed the Church in detail. I usually read the contents of sources before posting them to validate claims on AfDs. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 19:07, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I read 3 long sections of Gifford's book in which he covered Lighthouse Chapel in detail before posting on this yesterday. I did not read the whole book.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:38, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * You clearly stated above that "Haven't actually read any of the books I refer to above.. It's so sad that your comments seemed to be contradictory. I'm sorry I won't engage in any further argument with you. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 01:17, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

This is an International church with branches in over 70 countries across different continents.I don't know if that in itself not notable --Rberchie (talk) 19:26, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep. There are plenty of sources that discuss the subject, or aspects, in some depth. Clearly notable. Aymatth2 (talk) 18:40, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - per nom. I looked and per WP:ORGDEPTH there is not enough in-depth coverage. By depth it means there is coverage beyond the normal non-notable mentions (eg times for services, mention of programs/events in passing, etc). There are a lot of mentions but I didn't find any where the church is the subject of the article. There are many mentions of it having an impressive number of churches around the world, but I don't know if that is verified information or what they count as a church (I could open the Orthodox Church of St. Wikimandia in my living room, and you cannot say it's not a church). This article here about Ghana's richest pastors (of which the Lighthouse Chapel pastor is one) is .... weird. Once again I don't see any links where the church itself is the subject of the article. Here is an example of that kind of article, in which the article is about the church itself. I'm perfectly willing to be convinced of its notability, so if you can link to sources like that, I will re-evaluate.  —Мандичка YO 😜 03:47, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, WP:GNG does not required that whole articles be "about" the topic, but rather that "Significant coverage addresses the topic directly and in detail".  Unsources (original) material can be removed from the page, or tagged for sourcing.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:01, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * There is in depth coverage in scholarly and non scholarly sources now on the page. Paul Giffords covers this church in considerable depth, as do the authors added by User:Aymatth2.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:13, 10 May 2015 (UTC)


 * The "Further reading" section at the end of the article identifies two scholarly papers about LCI:




 * The article draws on Quampah (2014) and Englund (2011), which devote several pages to discussing LCI in terms of ethical standards and social engagement. Many other sources describe aspects of LCI and its activities, some of which are cited by the article. LCI is a large and rapidly growing church with presence in many different countries. It would be extraordinary if it were not notable. Aymatth2 (talk) 12:37, 10 May 2015 (UTC)


 * WP:HEY Kudos to User:Aymatth2 for sourcing this megachurch to the growing literature on the contemporary Church in Africa.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:11, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep, following massive improvements by User:Aymatth2. My first reaction to this was slight surprise that LCI should be considered non-notable - I don't exactly keep an eye out for pentecostal churches, but I'd definitely heard of this one. However, when nominated, the article certainly did not demonstrate notability - but it definitely does now. PWilkinson (talk) 14:07, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep And trout slap to ♦ Dr. Blofeld  13:00, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep -- AS a church with multiple brnaches in a variety of countries it is more like a denomination than a lcoal church. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:39, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.