Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lilly, Do You Want to Know a Secret?


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was keep or merge Unclear if consensus is to merge/redirect to the episode list page, further discussion is necessary, but that should be on the talk page, you don't need AFD to do a merge.. W.marsh 17:34, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Lilly, Do You Want to Know a Secret?

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

I am nominating this page per last week's discussion on episodes of The Suite Life of Zack and Cody. This page only contain their plot and useless trivia. They can be covered in the list of Hannah Montana episodes. - Disney768User 07:43, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I am also nominating these related pages:


 * Keep - almost every notable tv show has a episode guide with plot summaries here on Wikipedia. Most of the nominated articles here are well written, formatted and in an encyclopedia tone. Think outside the box 10:48, 17 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete All - Sorry, but individual episodes of this kid's show just aren't all the meaningful or notable on their own. The only external links that mention them are to IMDB, tv.com, and disney's own page.  The list page covers the info well enough. Tarc 14:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep per precedent. Perhaps there needs to be some broader discussion on this topic, perhaps even consideration for writing up a guideline on television episode articles, but thus far there is a definite community consensus to keep individual episode articles for pretty much any television series.  While notability of each series may be entirely subjective, it would be unfair to say that this show is less notable than, say, Star Trek and therefore less deserving of individual episode articles, as that would be introducing an unfair bias.  On their own merits I would gladly say that television episode articles are not encyclopedic and should be deleted - but the precedent for keeping them is too strong to ignore.  So then my recommendation is to keep these articles until a broader consensus on what to do with television episode articles can be reached.  Ark yan  &#149; (talk) 15:46, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom Will (We're flying the flag all over the world) 15:58, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. lets hope this dosn't get as bad TSl did
 * Week Keep most tlevision shows have articles for each episode Black Harry (T|C) 17:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep I agree with Black Harry Arnon Chaffin Got a message?  19:21, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge all to a single list article or perhaps an article for each season. In looking at a number of these articles, it does not appear that they meet any sort of standard for being standalone articles. They consist of a plot summary, a trivia section and a "goofs" section. These are the sort of articles that would be best served by a single list article where all of the repetitive information on cast could be listed once with brief plot synopses for each episode and annotation of any particularly notable non-trivia information. See for example the many articles contained within Category:Lists of television series episodes. Should particular episodes of the series become independently notable apart from the series (if any of them won a notable award for example) then an individual article can be written for that episode. Otto4711 19:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge all to list shortening the plot summaries and removing trivia. I've said this before and I'll say it again. We don't keep/delete based on precedent, we judge the articles individually. Saying other TV shows have individual episode articles is a silly reason to keep. Mr.Z-man  talk ¢ 20:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete or merge to list(s). There is a guideline on TV show episodes - WP:EPISODE. And the gist of it is that if the only information about an episode comes from the episode itself, there shouldn't be an article. Confusing Manifestation 23:16, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep I think that there are so many other articles on TV episodes that are out there it would be pointless to go out deleting all of them. It would make a lot of people mad, and cause a lot of work and time to be wasted on the part of both admins, and normal editors. I don't really like the practice, but precedent supersedes personal preferences. Just putting my 2 cents in. Neranei 23:46, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge all to List of Hannah Montana episodes. Precendent is not a good reason to keep article. None of the articles in question indicate they are notable according to WP:EPISODE, they're all just rehashing of the plot of each episode plus useless trivia. Plus, it's treading on copyright violation to have episode summaries this detailed; the articles should not be a replacement for watching individual episodes. Unless one of these episodes has the critical acclaim of The City on the Edge of Forever or the ratings of Goodbye, Farewell and Amen, I fail to see how they warrant individual articles. NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 02:02, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep All Episodes are notable and precedent is rather strong to maintain such articles. Alansohn 02:03, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Can you give an example of notability? Just saying that they are doesn't make it so, notability is established when outside sources make note of the subject. Tarc 12:46, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep and clean-up. Many people are currently working on improving the Disney Channel episodes to remove trivia, fix-up the plots and add more information. It's easier to improve an article rather than start it from scratch later. This is going to be another fun filled war like with The Suite Life of Zack & Cody episode AfD. You'd think editors would notice continually AfDing all the episodes you find isn't going to just all of a sudden work. Current consensus among the editors is to improve these articles so that they can pass all applicable guidelines rather than just outright deleting them. If people spent as much time improving these as they do AfDing them, they'd be decent articles. And hey, if albums are notable because the musician who made them is, why aren't episodes notable if the series is? --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 00:40, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Last I checked, albums by notable artists, books by notable authors, etc. are not inherently notable. Notabilty is not inherited. Do these episodes meet the WP:N guideline? Mr.Z-man  talk ¢ 04:31, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge all into something like the List of Naruto: Shippūden episodes, preferably. The plot summaries don't have to be entirely discarded, even though the episodes are not strong enough to stand as individual articles. Deranged bulbasaur 12:09, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. Wikipedia not paper. Reasonably popular and notable show. No need to throw away the work that's gone into these articles. Herostratus 16:43, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The amount of "work" put into it is not a valid argument at all, if the subj matter is not notable. Tarc 14:48, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep Other television shows have individual entries for each episode in addition to a larger list. See List of Star Trek: The Next Generation episodes and an individual entry at Darmok.  I don't see why there should be any difference. JCO312 16:00, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not Trekkie by any stretch of the imagination, but Star Trek is far more notable than a `tweener kid's show. There is nothing notable about any of these individual episodes.  Put em all in a list with brief plot summaries next to each. Tarc 14:48, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * What makes Star Trek far more notable than this show? Obviously the early series are, but what about Star Trek: Enterprise? As far as I can tell no individual episode won an award or was critically acclaimed. According to this list, the number of viewers for the fourth season (as well as most of the third) is less than this episode, so what makes it less notable. The only reason individual Enterprise episodes are on here is because they have the Star Trek name. Now I'm not claiming that these episodes are notable or not, I just think we need to be clear on the notability guidelines. If, as someone suggested above, episodes are only notable if they have the critical acclaim of City on the Edge of Forever or the ratings of Goodbye, Farewell and Amen then that is an almost impossibly high standard and there should be almost no individual episode articles on wikipedia. (Note that this is just a comment not a "vote" per se, I'm not going to give a "vote" based on this comment because it comes dangerously close to arguing that other crap exists) Phydend 16:26, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge Although other TV shows have individual entries, the series is not notable enough to. I suggest merging as the nomination suggests. -- Trumpetband  01:09, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.