Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lily Champ


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus is to Keep this article. Liz Read! Talk! 06:44, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Lily Champ

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

I PRODded this because my WP:BEFORE search didn't find any independent RS coverage outside of this Laois Today article, which I think is too brief to constitute sigcov. (courtesy ping) dePRODded and added citations to Irish Country Magazine and the Irish Farmers Journal, but Champ writes a column in both of those outlets, so I'm not convinced that they're independent of the subject. Happy to discuss. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 01:34, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women and Ireland. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 01:34, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment The Irish Farmer's Journal calls her "well known" and I have no reason to believe she isn't. Another article says she's been gardening longer than most people have been alive, but I can't find anything written about her. The sources used in the article here are the only ones I can find. Oaktree b (talk) 03:50, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * She was featured on a television show on RTE (no link to the show, but it's discussed in this press pack ), down near the bottom. Oaktree b (talk) 04:01, 20 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Weak delete I feel like she's regionally known and perhaps also on a national level, but there are no sources. We're almost at GNG; one good source would change my !vote. Oaktree b (talk) 04:48, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak keep per WP:BASIC and considerable expansion with additional sources added. Given that we need to discount the slightly longer articles from Irish Country Magazine and Irish Farmers Journal (since she writes for them), we still have the two summaries from RTÉ One (2010 episode of Ear to the Ground and 2021 episode of Nationwide) (which are the strongest of the lot); the lead-in to the Midlands 103 radio interview (which adds the National Ploughing Championships and a few other minor details); the brief intro to a Q&A interview in the book Trevor's Kitchen Garden (which calls her "well known to the readers of Irish Farmers Journal); and the above-mentioned article in Laois Today which we all wish was slightly longer. Do I wish there was more depth in the non-RTÉ sources to justify keeping this? Yes. But for what it is, it's arguably just enough: a kitchen garden expert who is well known locally, with national recognition on RTÉ One, the annual Bloom Festival, and the National Ploughing Championships, as well as the national columns in Irish Farmers Journal and Irish Country Magazine, and WP:BASIC allows us to stitch the pieces together. (Also added a few more passing mentions and details in addition to these.) Cielquiparle (talk) 14:11, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak keep Agree with the assessment above, weak but she's at GNG due to the television programs. Oaktree b (talk) 16:31, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting after article changes since nomination. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:07, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. In all honesty, and with thanks to for the "courtesy ping", I'm still on-the-fence on this one. Even with the well-sourced improvements and supported additions by  (thanks), I'm not sure it's clear-cut either way. While I can't outright justify or advocate that we "keep" a stand-alone BIO article, I also don't think that outright deletion is the correct course. The only WP:ATD I can consider is a merge (of the overlapping content) to Irish Farmers Journal. With a redirect left behind. Otherwise, in all honesty, I'm not sure what to suggest. While not a clear-cut candidate for PROD (and I still stand behind my dePROD), I don't have a firm AfD recommendation either way... Guliolopez (talk) 16:38, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak Keep She's not very notable. Important sources we rely on to establish notability are also places where she's been published, but I assume there are not that many Irish gardening publications and that anyone who's spent a long life in the industry might have the same issue. I think we have to assume they have sufficient editorial credibility. I've struggled with this one for same/similar reasons that people have stated above, but my main question to is therefore "is the encyclopedia better with her in it or not in it. so I vote keep. CT55555 (talk) 15:54, 29 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Skynxnex (talk) 20:12, 30 November 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.