Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Linux Tablet

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this  page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was no consensus. Tony Sidaway|Talk 18:40, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Linux Tablet
Original research, howto. Delete. --cesarb 00:55, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Getting better after rewrite, less of a howto and more of an encyclopedic article. However, still merge into Tablet PC after heavy cleanup. --cesarb 17:56, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete I agree with deleting both the original and my cleaned up sub-sub-stub. Not an article deserving of a topic anymore than, say, Linux iBook would be. Posted from a TabletPC, running BeOS, badly.... Kiand 01:00, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Comment: You made above comment before the article was last updated- I would appreciate your reactions to the current article and would appreciate your advice.Vizion
 * Hide until someone cleans it up and makes it NPOV instead of rabid fanboy linuxcruft. this has the potential to be an interesting article, or maybe we should just delete it and add any alternative OS info to the Tablet PC. SchmuckyTheCat 01:09, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Comment: You made above comment before the article was last updated- I would appreciate your reactions to the current article and would appreciate your advice.Vizion
 * Redirect to Linux and merge info. --Fuzzball! (talk) 02:21, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Not certain about this idea - it sounds attractive but it may not be pravticle. The topic is a bit too complex to be as a sub-topic under Linux - especially as it would also be advantageous to refer to other unixlike operating systems. It would also mean the same data would then have to be repeated for each of the other Uinxlike operating systems of which there are around 70. That would lead to undecessary duplication. I would prefer to suggest the strategy of placing a cross reference into articles for the other UnixLike and provinding a short sub-sub paragraph into Linux Tablet stating for each distribution how Tablet PC's implemenatation differs for that OS from the Linux implementation. What do you think to this strategy? Vizion
 * Delete the Tablet PC article is based on the hardware not the operating system, and already mentions Linux on the tablet PCs. PPGMD 05:38, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Move to wikibooks.-gadfium 05:47, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. There are several Linux tablet PCs, including Element Computer's. Perhaps this article could elaborate. Andrew pmk 06:08, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect to Tablet PC or Linux. Mgm|(talk) 08:24, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC) Tablet PC under Linux (and Unixlike operating systems is too complex to sit well with the structure of that TabletPC article.
 * Transwiki how-tos (see the version that was vfd'd) to Wikibooks. &mdash;Korath (Talk) 10:16, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: see also the author's comments at Village pump (assistance). --cesarb 02:05, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep. I am the author of the original article and it was posted as a stub in the expectation that others would contribute to it and that I would add more material as itbecame available and I had the time to do so.

My view is that the topic deserves an article on its own account because it brings under one heading so many different fragments of specialized knowledge which in combination contribute to an understanding of a Linux (or any other **ix distribution)Tablet and how to build and operate one. I have already identified over 20 sub-topics which need to be referenced and indexed within the main body of the article.

The interface requirements of a Tablet is entirely different from of any other computer type. This produces particular problems for software and the OS under Linux/Unix(especially on boot up/login) and an understanding of the hardware/OS interface. I see this stub article providing a reference for all the data about the OS/software/hardware and specialist applications which can be provided using this tool.

I also envisage the article encompassing the data for other **ix like distributions supporting the Tablet PC under one title. That may justify a change in the title of the article and I would be keen to hear any suggestions. What I had in mind doing was to create a sub topic which gave modifications necessary to the data in the main article to build and operate Tablets under other **ix OS distributions.

Iwould agree that my first draft was a bit idiosyncratic and too personal in nature. I was expecting to get some pretty good constructive editing and contributions from others and had collated material ready for carrying out some editing which would have addressed that deficiency. I went back to edit the article and was astonished to find that it had been deleted (I no longer have a copy) within such a short time of the original draft being posted.

If I had realized that the would have been a risk of deletion before an opportunity had arisen to mature the first draft I might have held off from posting at the early stage. I feel it is not inappropriate to ask that the article be undeleted so Ican have an opportunity to receive helpful comments and criticisms, carried out further editing and provide an opportunity to incorporate the benefit of contributions from others.

Vizion

David Southwell


 * It hasn't been deleted yet. You can retrieve old versions of an article with the "history" tab.  Here's a direct link to the last version you edited. &mdash;Korath (Talk) 22:16, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)


 * Question : So can I still edit that article -- or do I have to wait until the outcome of this dialogue? I am confused by the process. Why does Votes for deletion not take place separately to keep that process away from the article under consideration?

Vizion
 * Yes, you can still edit the article. The Votes for deletion is kept separate (the only change it makes to the article is to add a box on the top, which should be kept if you change the article &mdash; it will be removed when the Votes for deletion on it is closed). In fact, the removal of most of the content of the article was an edit made by someone else after the VfD notice was added, and would probably happen even without it. For more information, see the Guide to Votes for deletion. --cesarb 22:47, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Vizion
 * Comment: Ok I have now started the process of editing which will continue as rapidly as I can make time available. Iwould appreciate it anyone who has constructe ideas or criticisms would please add them here so I can make best use of their knowledge and experience.


 * Comment: Wikipedia isn't a howto archive, and that seems like what you are trying to do. I think if you want to make an encyclopedia type article great, but it simply sounds like you are trying to make a howto. Now I think that the section on Linux in the Tablet PC article needs expanding, I think thats the best place for it, unless it gets too large, than you can branch it out. I would prefer one long article on Tablet PCs in general then one short article on the hardware, another short one on Windows Tablet PC Edition, and another short one on Linux Tablet PCs. PPGMD 14:21, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You mightbwant to consider that I am making links to other Wiki articles as I go to make cross-references where appropriate. So to start under one heading and change later would create unnecessary work. I hope to persuade you to support me on keeping this article as is and thank you. Vizion
 * Comment: Sorry if you gained an impression from the early draft that this is intended to be a "how-to". That is not the intention as you will see as the article progresses. It is intended to be a collation of all the knowledge and references about Linux Tablet (note the article's definition of OS (Linux and Unixlike) including data about design challenges with references to design solutions. I do not want to make this a sub of the Linux article because the concentration is on the wider Unixlike needs.(I also want to avoid internecine editing wars with virulent advocates of the different Unixlike OSs). I also do not want to get involved in the spats between microsoft/apple/unix devotees which will plague us if the article is a sub of the Tablet PC. This article extends beyond the purview of The Tablet as an instrument andvextends into the areas of OS and application design. The other thing you mightbwant to take into account is that this is planned as a substantial article. I have already garnered s lot of material to be be include once the basic structure is in place.


 * Comment: Based on the current edit it can either turn into a term paper or a howto, both of those would be out of place in Wikipedia. I feel that it would benefit wikipedia more if you started your article as a section of the Tablet PC article, and only seperated out if your article starts to get too long. Until your article demostrates other wise my vote is delete and merge as posted above. PPGMD 18:08, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Please see the latest edit - I have made it clear that it is not a How-To. What do you mean by a term paper?

I am not familiar with that. Is that a word with a wiki specific meaning or is it an american word with a meaning unknown to me (I am a Brit)? I do remain strongly opposed to placing it under the Tablet PC article. I have a lot of experience of the difficulties which arise when Unixlike operating systems are discussed in the same space alongside microsoft and apple communities, especially as the agendas would, in thebcontext of this article, be entirely different. The politics get too fierce for my taste! The other thing is the structure of the Tablet PC does not facilitate the objectives of this article and I really do not believe it can be made to work. Vizion


 * A term paper, jeez hard to describe, I have written way too many of them when I was in college. Anyways your objectives of the article, don't seem to line up with the objectives of wikipedia, which "surveys existing human knowledge," this article would require quite a bit of original research to complete. A perfect Linux tablet PC article would include a description, short analysis of current Linux Tablet OSs, short comings of those OSs, and links to sites with howtos. Unfortunately that wouldn't be long enough to merit it's own article, when the current Tablet PC article can easily edited to accommodate it IMO. Note this is no way official, but the opinion of myself. PPGMD 18:55, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Comment: I am inclined to ask whether you are jumping to conclusions. First the article will bemuch more substantial than commentators here seem to assume. Maybe that is because I have been researching this topic for some time and it is extremely complex. I am not willing to provide surface treatment of the subject. The structure of an article dealing with Tablet PCs on Win XP would have to be entirely different than one on UnixLike systems. Then there would be justifiable criticism that one was writing beyond the subject topic-- the article I am writing goes well beyond that limited title!


 * Comment However, you seem to think that an article on Linux powered Tablets would actually be different enough.
 * At this very moment I am using BeOS 5.03 on a HP Compaq tc1100 tablet. I installed via a DOS network boot and a hard disk image file - took under an hour. All the hardware works (except page flip chip). Its bascially indistinguishable from using the tc1100 under Windows, except for the fact that I have a Tracker in the top right hand corner and no Windows systray. Linux is much the same. There is little that can be written about Linux, or any other OS, on Tablet PC's without devolving into a howto. Kiand 19:20, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Comment Just an aside the compaq tc 1100 is really a dual mode portable as it has a convential keyboard which is detachable. This places it in one of the genre of portable systems distinct from the "pure" Tablet. The Tc1100 shares many attributes with Laptop/Tablet but is perhaps best defined as a Tablet/laptop convertable.

The interesting is that each genre, has its own fascinating distinctions and potentials. For example it is much easier to install/repair an OS onto a Tablet with a detachable physical keyboard which is generally or frequently used in a location with access to a network than it is onto, for example, a rugged Tablet with no keyboard on board a small ship (where physical keyboards are also impracticable and get damaged) or in all terrain vehicle in the desert which never has access to a network. These systems need an OS which is standalone installable and repairable. Most Tablets in use are applied as a simple alternative to a conventional laptop. The limited vision implicit in the use of does not define what can be written about the Tablet. I hope this helps.

Vizion


 * What you are writing is more comparable to a book or a howto, and is simply beyond the scope of Wikipedia. I do agree with Kiand, after checking out Wikibooks, that would be the best place for your article. We could then restructure the Tablet PC article with sections on general concept, hardware, Windows, and Linux, and under the Linux section we could link to your article on Wikibooks. PPGMD 19:43, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Comment
 * What you are writing is not suitable for the Encylcopaedia. Without us explaining it all, please read the Manual of Style. What you are writing is not an encyclopaedia article; it is basically a howto under a different name.


 * Comment Please read the article not a single How-to in the current draft. There are headings for the insertion of further material but I can assure you that none of those headings will be filled with How-To material. Vizion


 * You will notice that no other encylopaedia articles list the contributors; or contain huge detailed lists of how to do things, in the way yours does.


 * Comment List of contributors edited out. Please read the article you will see there are no detailed lists of how to do things in the article. There are headings for sections which are being written but none of those headings will contain how-to material.


 * However, it would be suitable on Wikibooks, another Wikimedia project for collaborative manual and book writing. Kiand 18:43, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ok I am taking out the list of contributors -- in english law you have to maintain a list of responsible contributors in any publication to meet the needs of libel lawyers.. if you do not do so then the publisher can be liable with a very poor defense..so I am following normal practice.

I hear you on your how-to objection but I ask you not to judge so hastily. Seriously I have reason for saying that that label will not be sustainable as the article matures.


 * The History tab keeps that detail, including who wrote what.
 * I still say this article is more suited to wikibooks. Kiand 19:04, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

............ Comment by Vizion: This remark quotes from an earlier draft. Current draft makes intention clear -
 * Delete - This has no more relevance than "Windows Tablet", which thankfully does not exist. Personally, I'd recommend axing it.  This article [...] collates and discusses [...]

This is not an encyclopedia entry. The appropriate place for this would perhaps be a newsgroup or a forum, but not Wikipedia. -- Dpark 19:55, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Comment. See also What Wikipedia is not. --cesarb 22:28, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Question? Please tell me where the Linux Tablet falls into one of the categories identified in What Wikipedia is not-- as far as I can see it does not do so. If you can show me where it does then I will edit accordingly.. Vizion

Comment: I think you have all created an opportunity for me to identify WHY the encyclopaedic knowledge brought together in this article is required. At this point in time there seems to be a general assumption is that the Tablet PC is defined by reference to a Microsoft instance (see Kiands comment - he compares his Tablet as says it does whatever Microsoft can do -- (it could be argued, outside of an encyclopeadic article, that Microsoft's Tablet Edition does not begin to test the Tablet potential possibly because of the limits placed by the privacy of its Operating System source code). In fact the limitations on Tablet potential may be arguably defined by the Microsoft instance and by the public lack of encyclopeadic information about the Tablet. Now that is not an argument which I would dream of including in a Wiki but because there is no publicly accessible source of enclopaedic knowlege about the Tablet the Tablet is in default defined by Microsoft. It might be argued Microsoft would like to keep it that way by retaining their encycopaedic knowledge of the topic in their private domain. I freely acknowledge that I am a newbie in the Wiki world but why do you guys not let something mature a bit before trying to delete it,or, in the alternative, make some constructive suggestions so the article can meet essential requirements? In the current context I cannot help but feel a decision to delete this article would amount to censorship in Microsoft's interest. At thensame time even though I assume this is not personal, and the comments have been made in good faith, it is hard to resist the feeling of being jumped on before time and of exclusion.

Vizion REWRITTEN: The article is being rewritten and I suggest it be revisited. The suggestion the article is a How-to isva false assumption --I cannot but repeat what is said in the article. This is not a How-to article Vizion

Comment: I've tried to clean up the style, though it could still use some work. Even so, I still vote for deletion. I can't help but notice that despite the article being fairly long, it doesn't really contain any information. I or someone else can continue to work on the style, but until there's useful information, can we justify keeping this article? If there really is anything useful in this article that I'm overlooking, maybe it should be merged with Tablet PC. I still don't see the need in a Linux-Specific Tablet PC article, especially until there's a larger body of information. I'd recommend a sub-section on the Tablet PC page, and if it grows large enough, then it could be moved into its own article. So far, there's just a page and a half of empty headings. That does not constitute an article. Dpark 23:24, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Comment: I think I've pretty much exhausted what I can/am willing to do for the style. Looking through the article, I found that the following things qualify as useful and original content: The intro sentence. That's pretty much it (and I added that). The rest is either already in other articles (the definitions, basic info on the touch-panel), qualifies as how-to (how to install using a usb keyboard versus custom software), or as "what should be here" (About this Article, everything under the subheadings). The usefulness of the intro sentence is pretty much up for debate, too, since it depends on the importance of the term (which I'd rate as pretty low). I still say delete. There's not really anything here to even merge into Tablet PC. It's been almost two weeks since it was created, and there's still no real content. Dpark
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.