Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of African American neighborhoods


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. One two three... 15:40, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

List of African American neighborhoods

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

The list is intended to include "the oldest and most influential" African-American neighborhoods, but it has become an unsourced dumping ground for any and every African-American neighborhood an editor can think of. — Malik Shabazz 21:14, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the  link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).— S Marshall   Talk / Cont  22:23, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your suggestion, especially your use of a template. A quick look at the article's edit history would show that I've been trying to do -- aw, why the fuck am I responding to somebody who can't be bothered to type more than a dozen characters? — Malik Shabazz 22:30, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment There is no way to tell what belongs on the list or doesn't. How is an "African-American neighborhood" defined at different periods of history?  I am definitely leaning to delete.  Basically you could include every neighborhood in the United States unless no African-American person has ever lived there. Drawn Some (talk) 22:42, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've been deleting any entry whose article didn't describe it as a historically Black neighborhood, or as having a contemporary African-American majority. — Malik Shabazz 22:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


 * sofixit summed up exactly what I wanted to say, though. :) I agree the article should be a list of "the oldest and most influential" African-American neighbourhoods, and it can't be that if it's been deleted. If there's a problem with random material being added, why not ask for the page to be semi-protected?  Deletion should generally be a last resort.— S Marshall   Talk / Cont  22:43, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It needs a better definition than "oldest and most influential", that's way too subjective. Drawn Some (talk) 22:46, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The WP:GNG ought to sort that out though, don't you think? If it's been called an African-American neighbourhood in more than one reliable source, then surely it's over the threshold?— S Marshall   Talk / Cont  22:50, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * (ec)I agree. Those are subjective measures, and nobody has responded to an eleven-month-old request for sources. — Malik Shabazz 22:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Does Wikipedia now have a deadline for an article to be in its final form? Edison (talk) 22:35, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. The information is duplicated in other lists that ALSO quote the data source. This list, by contrast, is subject to bias and suffers from ill-defined terms. Eddie.willers (talk) 01:23, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. Source it, don't delete it. If more than one reliable source calls it an African-American neighborhood, then include it. Fences and windows (talk) 04:24, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * DELETE. All the sofixit and cleanup tags in the world won't help this epic trainwreck.  JBsupreme (talk) 06:41, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep and improve. Each of the items should have a brief description of the basis, and of the relevant period. It does need to be defined better than oldest and influential--I think influential for a considerable period of time would be the right criterion. some of those I know were, for example, Jewish before they were Afro-American, or Afro-american before becoming hispanic. This geographic separation is a basic feature of american demography. This was not a very well done job, ao far, but its a start. I point out that there are books on almost every one of them, and mutiple news acccounts. There will certainly be no difficulty in sourcing. . — Preceding unsigned comment added by DGG (talk • contribs)
 * Keep I spotchecked a number of the neighborhoods, and their individual articles or sections in articles about neighborhoods of a city confirmed that they are black neighborhoods. The fear that an article does or might in the future need editing is not a convincing deletion argument. There are many publications about the neighborhoods of a city in papers and books about cities, as well as census data, to confirm what are black neighborhoods. Definition of the terms is an issue: does some small towns black district qualify or not? That is why articles are not "finalized" but are the product of ongoing editorial consensus. The list is a useful navigational tool. Edison (talk) 22:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * keep and improve. One of a series of such articles found in Category:Lists of U.S. locations with large ethnic populations.  No valid reason to target this article for deletion; no reason to target the others for deletion either. Hmains (talk) 04:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * A lot of neighborhoods emigrated to the US from Africa? Man, think of the shipping involved. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 15:54, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete- see below Comment A list like this might be informative and encyclopedic were it sourced and not subjective; here this article fails both these criteria - which means it needs to be rewritten with sources and remove any subjective criteria - if the neighborhood is 50%+ African American by population, it's in; once below the threshold it's out - it's someone else's neighborhood then - rather than some subjective inclusion criteria like someone's opinion that there are lots of African Americans there. ("lots of" is meaningless and likely based on some racist thinking). Whether the rewrite comes from the existing article or from scratch is not a big deal to me, but it does need to be re-written. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:25, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You're trying to come up with an arbitrary threshold at which a neighbourhood becomes "African American", i.e. 50%, but we don't create our own definitions on Wikipedia, we rely on what reliable sources tell us. So if reliable sources say an area is "African American" it goes in the list. Also, be careful - it could be construed that you meant that some Wikipedia editors were applying racist thinking. Fences and windows (talk) 21:37, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The threshold of 50% is taken directly from African American neighborhood: "Generally, an African American neighborhood is one where the majority of the people who live there are African American". A majority is 50%+1. So you dispute that this is what is attempted to be listed in the article under discussion? That's fair, and that's why this article and its list is arbitrary and should be deleted as such. Thanks for clarifying that. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:16, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Question How is it African American if it is no longer majority populated by African Americans? Harlem was once a prominent Jewish neighborhood.  Do you still list it as such?  Shouldn't there be something of historical importance in these neighborhoods, be it cultural, race riots, civil rights movements, or whatever?  The list should include a list of things that make it notable enough to be on the list.  But AFD is not for cleanup, but is suppose to be used as a last resort.  Discuss problems on the talk page, and work on it from there.  I'm going to go do some work on the article now.   D r e a m Focus  02:33, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep The article can be improved. I started making it so all the neighborhoods were in collapsed menus, the article easier to find your way around now.  Added a description to a couple of places, to demonstrate why they were notable.  The coloring of the text and background for the menus, as well as the headlines above them, I think could be improved upon.  Anyone ever do something like this before on wikipedia?  Discuss things on the talk page please.   D r e a m Focus  03:28, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, irredeemably POV and OR. Stifle (talk) 12:47, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The existence of African American neighbourhoods is "original research"?! Er, no. If it's POV, we fix that by using reliable sources, not deleting. There's nothing irredeemable here. Fences and windows (talk) 16:13, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete Arbitrary list with no real sourcing requirements. Hipocrite (talk) 04:40, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The requirements are listed at the top of the article. The name should be changed to avoid confusion though.  I have added in the reason for several of the entries to exist.  If you see any entry that doesn't have any notable historical or cultural influence, then erase it.   D r e a m Focus  11:25, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That they be "old" and "influential?" Those aren't sourcing requirements, they're fluff. Why is an area acceptable or not? What defines "area?" For instance, Henrico County, Virginia, is a county, but Southern New Jersey is a third of a state, while NY metropolitan area includes massive sections of 2 states and a plurality of the population of a third. This article is unsalvagable. Hipocrite (talk) 15:04, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. This really needs a lot of work. I'm familiar with the concept with looking at gay neighborhoods. They generally have a starting point and a list article would be more helpful to explain, was it also a business hub, cultural center or purely residential? A basic list of just the neighborhoods with no further explanation isn't very helpful. Like most list articles it need a proper lede explaining a bit why African American would be clustered. -- Banj e  b oi   12:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.