Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Angry Video Game Nerd episodes (5th nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:31, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

List of Angry Video Game Nerd episodes
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

List for the sake of having a list. Fails WP:LISTN, with a total lack of independent, reliable sources that discuss this grouping. Sources are almost entirely from the AVGN website. More WP:LISTCRUFT and WP:FANCRUFT.

Just because a show or youtube series may be notable, does not mean we need to make a giant poorly sourced list of all the episodes.

Nominating for the 5th time because the recent Jan AFD discussion was poorly argued. The keep votes cited WP:SPLIT to justify the article. That would be valid if third party RS were found. WP is source firt, as in, the sources dictate whether pages should be made. If there are no reliable third party sources demonstrating the need for this grouping or list, then there's no need for this list. If I were to remove everything not sourced to third party sources for this page, I would effectively blank the page. Thus it would just be merged into the main one.

In other words, this WP:SPLIT does not come into effect because there's no sources demanding us to expand the main AVGN page to include a list of episodes, which is then split off.

Other Keep votes said that having a list of episodes is common or standard for web-series or television shows, which is an argument covered in WP:OTHERSTUFF. Each page is evaluated on its own merits, and the fact other pages exist is irrelevant. In fact, those other pages may themselves not be notable. Harizotoh9 (talk) 20:08, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. Ceethekreator (talk) 21:41, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Ceethekreator (talk) 21:41, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Ceethekreator (talk) 21:41, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Ceethekreator (talk) 21:41, 28 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep SPLIT can also be evoked if the main topic page is WP:SIZE-breaking, which it would be if this list was back in that. Then one fair question is to ask is "if SIZE was not an issue, would the list of episodes be part of the content on the coverage of AVGN" and to that question, I would say yes, based on RSes that discuss certain episodes (either based on the games, or his guest stars). (And I would also evoke that it is standard to list out episodes of any tv show or web series that has gotten this much coverage). Yes, when SPLIT the bulk of sourcing falls to the primary web site but this is no different when TV episode lists are split based only on schedule lists. As long as the principle topic shows notability, there's no requirement the SPLIT LISTN must too. --M asem  (t) 21:57, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
 * You're ignoring the main issue which is that there's no sources to establish the notability of this list. There is no rule of Wikipedia that state we need to list the episodes of every single television and web series ever. If there's few or none third party sources then there's no need to make the list. If there are particularly notable episodes highlighted by third party sources, then they can be discussed in the body of the article for the AVGN. That' the spirit of Wikipedia: using third party sources to create scholarly articles. It is not in the spirit of Wikipedia to make indiscriminate list for the sake of it or because other pages do it. That's WP:LISTCRUFT.
 * The rest of your post relies on WP:OTHERSTUFF. 1. It's irrelevant that other pages exist. This page has to stand on its own merits. 2. What if we've gotten to permissive with "List of" episode pages and we shouldn't in fact consider it "standard" to make them for every single series ever? The problem with citing other pages is that it references to how things are done on Wikipedia, rather than the policies. And WP should be guided by policies, even though often they're ignored. Listcruft should not justify more listcruft. Harizotoh9 (talk) 22:18, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Question - Why is this written as the 5th nomination? There was only one prior AfD. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 22:33, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
 * The talk page lists 4 deletions. Talk:List_of_Angry_Video_Game_Nerd_episodes Harizotoh9 (talk) 23:03, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Then please make sure all prior discussions are directly listed here. postdlf (talk) 00:20, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
 * To be fair, a couple of those deletion discussions were for similar articles, or an article with a slightly different title. This should, realistically be Nomination 2. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:57, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Actually this is the 4th nomination. Two of the older discussions were for this article before the was removed from the title in 2015 and not about a separate similarly named article. The only discussion not about this page was attempt to delete the main AVGN page.--64.229.166.98 (talk) 01:53, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * SPLIT nor LISTN do not require a list split off from a notable topic to be notable, only that it is a logical separation and that there is a SIZE driver for the split. --M asem (t) 00:16, 29 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep per Masem, purely an issue of whether it's a proper WP:SPLIT, not the convoluted reasoning that the nominator is throwing out. This is now the fifth time our time has been wasted. "I think there is too much coverage of this topic I have never edited, so I'm going to start a seven-day bureaucratic process to strike it out with a sledgehammer rather than make talk page suggestions to trim it down with a scalpel, or just leave it alone." postdlf (talk) 00:20, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep The rationale behind having a reference list of episodes in threefold: a) whether the show itself is notable (the "group" or "list topic" in WP:LISTN refer to the series as a whole, in this case); b) whether WP:SPLIT applies; c) in case §b is borderline - whether usefulness to the reader (and by extension convention) suggest one way or the other. This case checks all three boxes. François Robere (talk) 11:32, 6 May 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.