Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Belgian beers


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. This may not be a stella example, but apparently ale the minimum requirements are met. I'm not going to make anybody wait any lager by relisting this. If you still think there's problems, I suggest you hop to it and get editing. -- RoySmith (talk) 02:41, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

List of Belgian beers

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

We have difficulty with lists, as the "potential for creating lists is infinite", but we tend to have difficulty defining when a list is not appropriate. WP:SALAT suggests that "Lists that are too general or too broad in scope have little value ... For example, a list of brand names would be far too long to be of value." Which is what we have with List of Belgian beer. Yes, the scope has been limited by type (beer) and country (Belgium), but we are still faced with a fairly pointless task of listing all the beer brands in Belgium, of which there are at any given time well over three thousand (see the Belgian page on RateBeer - and those listed who have reviewed over 3,000 different Belgian beer brands; but this figure isn't fixed because new brands are brought onto the market, some brands change name, and others stop being made. Trying to list all the beers of Belgium is like trying to catch smoke. Which might be worth attempting if there were some point to it. But while there are some brands which are notable, the bulk are not. Essentially a list of the over three thousand beer brands in Belgium is WP:INDISCRIMINATE, unhelpful, and impossible. What we'll have is an incomplete and random list of beer brands, which may or may not exist this time next month. SilkTork (talk) 01:30, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. North America1000 02:30, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Belgium-related deletion discussions. North America1000 02:30, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. North America1000 02:30, 25 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep But limit to being a list of Belgian beers with articles, to avoid being indiscriminate. If properly done, this list could be very interesting to people interested in European beers by country. Ilyina Olya Yakovna (talk) 04:26, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and WP:PRODUCT. Although I personally am a big fanatic of Belgium beer, lists of products should appear on articles of those who manufacture them and not in one combined list of every manufacturer in one country. Having one huge list of every single beer in Belgium is considered unwieldy and easily becomes WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Ajf773 (talk) 04:30, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Large and open-ended lists are valid – that's what the dynamic list template is for. See also WP:CLN.  The topic is highly notable per the following list of books and so easily satisfies WP:LISTN.  Any cleanup or housekeeping is a matter of ordinary editing not deletion and AfD is not cleanup. Santé / Gezondheid! Andrew D. (talk) 08:54, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The Belgian Beer Book
 * Belgian Ale
 * 100 Belgian Beers to Try Before You Die!
 * The Great Beers of Belgium
 * All Belgian Beers
 * Guide to Belgian Beers
 * Michael Jackson's Great Beers of Belgium
 * Belgian Abbey Beers
 * Around Brussels in 80 Beers
 * Lambic
 * So what's wrong with this article Beer in Belgium that is assumed would include everything those books would contain without the indiscriminate list? Ajf773 (talk) 10:40, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Beer in Belgium is 50K while the page in question is about 190K. Per WP:SIZE, it's appropriate to split this content.  Per WP:NOTPAPER, "Splitting long articles and leaving adequate summaries is a natural part of growth for a topic." Andrew D. (talk) 13:03, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't think that as as a number of sub-lists it is likely to be an issue. For context, this is a list coming to about 750,000 bytes, which I have created as 15 sub-lists. That is a far larger list project than this would be, even if you listed every verifiable beer brand ever sold in Belgium it would barely get to a quarter of the size. Ilyina Olya Yakovna (talk) 13:13, 25 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep. Nothing conceptually wrong with this list. Please take content questions (where we do have a problem) to its talk page. gidonb (talk) 12:07, 25 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep – The topic meets WP:LISTN, and concerns with the article's content and style can be addressed via talk page discussion and potential subsequent copy editing. North America1000 13:09, 25 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete as per WP:INDISCRIMINATE. This is wikipedia, not beeropedia.--Rusf10 (talk) 04:16, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I note that as Wikipedia is a general encyclopedia with elements of specialist encyclopedia's included where they are compatible, there is in fact a "beeropedia" included. I draw your attention to the 128 member WikiProject Beer, which includes over 3000 articles. Ilyina Olya Yakovna (talk) 10:59, 27 January 2018 (UTC)


 * keep but only if, as suggested by Ilyina, it is limited it to beers that have their own pages because as it is of no more use than specialist web sites. If this page stays as it is then there is nothing stopping the creation of other lists that would potentially run to thousands and thousands of entries. Wikipedia is not supposed to be a directory of everything that existed or exists.Domdeparis (talk) 16:46, 27 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.