Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Black Academy Award winners and nominees


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Keep. The opinions seems strongly swayed by the fact that this is a distinction that isn't original research, but the subject of public interest. Morally whether it should be is raised and unanswered, but seems to be of little concern overall, and has no real policy backing. Wily D 15:48, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

List of Black Academy Award winners and nominees

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Rationale Another instance of listfying award winners by some arbitrary characteristic, in this case ethnicity. Breaking down award nominees by ethnicity justified intersections by religion/sexuality/political stance etc as all of these are fitfully irrelevant to winning the prize, unless there was some reason to suspect prejudice. In which case, this list would be agenda-oriented original research. So, delete. We already have List of African American firsts for Academy Award firsts Bulldog123 02:43, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * But that list only mentions African-Americans, not all blacks nominated for Awards (many of whom are not United States citizens and are therefore not African-American). I don't see how a list referring to only a subset of people of African descent can replace a list that encompasses everyone who is black. Edited for better wording. -- Charlene 03:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's true but I don't see why List of Caucasian Academy Award winners and nominees can't be made then. Unless you can show what type of special notability this has. Bulldog123 05:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Had there been no reliable sources discussing this I'd agree with you, but Wikipedia policy requires that we depend on reliable sources to decide what is notable. Multiple non-trivial third parties are discussing blacks nominated for Academy Awards as a specific topic per Metropolitan 90's links listed below, so the article topic appears to pass WP:NOTE. I don't see any non-trivial reliable sources discussing whites nominated for Academy Awards as a specific topic. -- Charlene  07:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * These reliable sources are more just sensational journalism than academic studies on the subject matter. Bulldog123 16:33, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Very Strong Keep, wonderful article, I hope someone does one on List of Hispanic Academy Award winners and nominees. Callelinea 03:48, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * At first I was going to say delete, on the grounds that a) you could link these to a category, and accordingly, b) the achievements of each party could be explained in their pages here.  But, the article here does a decent job of condensing that, and doesn't seem to run afoul of WP:LIST.  The only concern I have is WP:TRIVIA, but I'm not clear if it falls out of the constraints thereof.  Therefore, keep.  -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 04:20, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Weak delete. The above arguments are convincing, but I still think that this is a tad arbitrary of a junction. Ten Pound Hammer  • (((Broken clamshells • Otter chirps))) 04:54, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't think ethnicity is arbitrary. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 05:15, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Can you show what type of connection there is between ethnicity and Academy Awards then? Bulldog123 05:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Weak delete. I would be more inclined to keep if it were restricted to just winners. Clarityfiend 05:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Barely Delete as intersection of two unrelated topics. Useight 05:43, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. While I understand the deletion arguments, there has been ample media coverage discussing the recognition or lack of recognition that black people have received in the Academy Awards. See, , , and for example. The general concept of whether someone is a black Oscar nominee or winner is notable. --Metropolitan90 06:03, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per Metropolitan90's research. Salon, MSNBC, and USA Today are reliable sources, and if they're discussing this specific topic that makes the topic notable. -- Charlene 07:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - if one is going to propose that the Academy awards are racist; then that is the title, not the current list. Further, what does the color of the skin have to do with winning an Academy Award? Do we have one for people with blue eyes or brown eyes; what about people with freckles or dimples. This is strictly trivia; it may make us feel morally superior and tolerant, but at the end of the day it is still no an acceptable article in this context. --Storm Rider (talk) 07:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep &mdash; Agree with Metropolitan90. &mdash; RJH (talk) 16:41, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per Metropolitan. The difficulty blacks have faced in winning the academy awards has been the subject of very much media coverage.  It is believed by many of these commentators to be a cultural barometer for race relations in the United States.  It is clearly and indisputably "notable" per our policies. --JayHenry 19:54, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep -- Agree with Metropolitan 90 Cap&#39;n Walker 21:50, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep but rename - I don't like the use of "black" in the title, maybe "African American"? Giggy  UCP 00:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * There may be problems with the title, but Marianne Jean-Baptiste, for example, would be excluded if the article was limited to African Americans. --Metropolitan90 05:52, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "Black" is the preferred term in most of the English-speaking world. In the US, African American is preferred or accepted by ~4/5 African Americans, and Black (or black) by ~3/5, with no other term gaining a plurality of support. See, among other things, African American (and its Talk page). --Dhartung | Talk 06:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, this is a notable distinction made by secondary sources and is thereby eligible for our purposes. --Dhartung | Talk 06:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Perhaps it would be wise to change this from pure list form into something which shows why being a Black Academy Award winner/nominee is notable. Nicko (Talk•Contribs) 11:29, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Agree completely. Turn this into an article, then it is legitimate. Leave it as a list and it's questionable. Articles that mention African-American "records" (as many of the ones linked by Metropolitan 90) really aren't that convincing that an article could be written on African-Americans (or, really, Blacks) and the Academy Award that wouldn't just be trivia. Right now it just feels like a list of "Black" firsts. Note that this isn't even about ethnicity, but rather race. In which case, one should expect an equal such list for Asians too (that being said, all members of the Asian race: Chinese, Japanese, Korean...), not Asian-Americans. Bulldog123 16:37, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete. Why don't we have an article like this for Asians, Native Americans, Europeans, Latinos and many other arbitrary ethnic classifications? Aren't we all technically "persons of African descent"? Why does the article title say black? Is it making the assumption everyone from Africa is black? Why can't we have an article titled "List of White Academy Award winners and nominees" or "List of Off-white-brownish-tanish Academy Award winners and nominees"? In addition, the article has no citations or references of any form, not even an external link. --Android Mouse 18:51, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. The article does not assume that everyone from Africa is black. Note that Omar Sharif and Charlize Theron were born in Africa, but neither is black and neither is listed in the article. --Metropolitan90 03:12, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The lead sentence states, "The following persons of African descent have each been winners or nominees of Academy Awards, from the first awards ceremony in 1929 to the present," yet everyone listed is black, inferring that everyone in Africa is black. --Android Mouse 19:11, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - I just addressed this issue at Articles for deletion/List of atheist Nobel laureates (2nd nomination) where I posted a delete reasoning. For this list, the WP:N can/does relate to their being Black. One part of theWP:N does goes to their being Academy Award winners and there already is such a list.  However, a list of Academy Award winners whose receipt their Academy Award was based in part on their being Black as confirmed by WP:RS may be a viable list. I do recall Halle Berry specifically mentioning her race in her acceptance speech in winning the award for Best Actress. There probably is WP:RS material that shows her race may have been a factor in her receiving the award as may be true for many of the others on the Wikipedia list. WP:RS may show other connections between Black and Academy Award and this list may include those as well. This two-criterion lists does not rely on the notability of the first criteria (Academy Award winner) since a list composted of the second criteria (Black) can stand on its own merits. Here (i) the second criteria (Black) has a sufficient WP:RS relevance connection to the first criteria (Academy Award winner) and (ii) the second criteria has sufficient WP:RS material on which to base a list membership criteria on its own merits. Thus, keep. --  Jreferee  (Talk) 18:28, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.