Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Brighton and Hove buses named after famous people


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was no consensus to delete. W.marsh 15:26, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

List of Brighton and Hove buses named after famous people
An astonishing example of...erm...buscruft. I've no objection to this being merged into the main article on the bus company if people feel it's worth saving, but - to be honest - I don't really think it is. The title has a whiff of WP:DAFTness, too. Grutness...wha?  09:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete. This is amazingly non-notable. I was going to compliment the person who created the article on his remarkable enthusiasm for Brighton buses, but there are a whole list of editors. -- Charlene 11:03, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete I suppose, but reluctantly. Whoever is in charge of selecting these names has a jaw-dropping breadth of imagination - Kitty O'Shea, Prince Petr Kropotkin, Gilbert Harding and Dusty Springfield all feature!. BTLizard 11:35, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong delete. The fact that the bus company name their busses is notable - I have never encountered it before. Put that fact in the bus company article along with a link to this list kept somewhere else . -- RHaworth 12:30, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * article in The Guardian, article in The Argus another article in The Argus another article in The Argus picture of the bus named after Peter Kropotkin &mdash; The fact that these buses are named after famous people has been reported and discussed at length (i.e. more than just 1 sentence "Oh yes, they name buses after famous people, there, too.") in multiple places by multiple people. Both that fact and several of the bus names and why they were chosen are amply verifiable.  Either merge into Brighton & Hove Bus and Coach Company or keep as a valid standalone list broken out of its parent article that has no neutrality problems, is verifiable, does not require original research, and is neither excessively narrow nor excessively broad in scope. By the way, Jamaica does this, too. Uncle G 14:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge into Brighton & Hove Bus and Coach Company. I've seen named buses before, but not after famous people. Besides, it could be interesting for residents of the area. SteveLamacq43 14:43, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete and don't merge. Whilst I agree with what Uncle G says about the verifiability and neutrality of the article, it remains non-notable as a subject for an article. The fact that the practice happens is quite enough information and so should go in the main article, especially since the bus company has a fairly extensive website of its own which already includes this list (and is likely to be more up to date than us) and even lists the manufacturers of each bus in the fleet! – Kieran T  ( talk  16:04, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, there's more information from secondary sources to be had than just the 1 sentence. From the cited articles we can source the fact that a competition was run to pick names for the buses, the fact that originally at least two alternatives were considered to using names of famous people, the 18 specific names that were added in April 2004, and the 19 specific names that were added in September 2005. Uncle G 18:03, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment – I make no dispute with your facts, but what's the value of that information? Just because there's information out there doesn't mean it's remotely appropriate for an encyclopædia. Those sources could be given as further reading from the main article, and besides, there's no reason why the mention which goes in the main article should only be one sentence as you seem to be concerned about. It could be several, but it should not, in my opinion, be a reproduction of the list which I stress is available on the bus company website. – Kieran T  ( talk  18:25, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You came close to answering your own question. The value of that particular information that I mentioned is context and detail, of course.  It's more informative for the reader to know the history than just (to quote the article) "Since 1999 many of the buses have had the name of a famous person commemorated on the front.".  Otherwise we might as well have articles like "Bill Clinton was President of the United States.  There was a scandal.".  Note that we are not discussing the article at hand (and I didn't say above that we were), but your assertion above that "the fact that the practice happens is quite enough information".  It isn't enough information.  Uncle G 18:52, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment – There is indeed a wider point at issue here. But to compare the importance or usefulness of the bus-naming policy of the Brighton and Hove Bus Company with the Presidency of Bill Clinton is not a realistic comparison. And (to discuss the article at hand) it is enough information for us here when the other (detail) information is available in the sources for people who want to dig. On the whole, Wikipedia doesn't feature sources copied out verbatim, but rather précis of those sources for the benefit of readers who want to retrieve the information efficiently. – Kieran T  ( talk  19:02, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a very realistic and pointed comparison. What you are missing is that your evaluation of the "importance or usefulness" of the information being discussed here is entirely subjective.  I can imagine that there are people in Brighton and Hove for whom the scandal related to Bill Clinton is wholly unimportant and useless information that has no impact upon their lives, but to whom knowledge about the way that the local bus company names its buses is important and useful.  (Read the very first sentence of the very first article that I cited, for example.)  And the issue that we are discussing is not the copying out of primary sources (which I've not actually disagreed with you about and which is a perfectly good point).  I explicitly wrote "secondary sources" above, and pointed out that there is material to be had from those secondary sources beyond "the fact that the practice happens", just as there is information to be had from secondary sources beyond the fact that "there was  scandal".  It turns out that it is about 3 paragraphs' worth. &#9786; Uncle G 19:45, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * We'll have to agree to differ (although I think we're somewhat talking about different things.) I defend my subjectivity though. The content of Wikipedia should be objective. Anybody's decision of what to contribute (and/or leave alone) is always subjective. –  Kieran T  ( talk  19:55, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete NN. but might mention in the article on the bus company. Edison 16:35, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge with bus company article. Was going to vote Keep as I object to lists being deleted (especially when the reasoning for doing so is that a category exists), however, there is more than one bus company that follows this practice (Ipswich Buses being one), so notability might be a sticking point Jcuk 18:30, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge to Brighton & Hove Bus and Coach Company. Oldelpaso 18:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete as trivial and per above comments. Daview 19:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. -- Kf4bdy talk contribs 23:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge with the Brighton & Hove Bus Company. Interesting information for that article. Capitalistroadster 00:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep It's too long to merge into the main article, but is wonderfully bizarre - we ought to have this information here. -- Beardo 00:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not really notable. Not really particularly bizarre either - British locomotives have been named after famous people for many years. This is just too localised to be useful. -- Necrothesp 01:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep It is too long for a merge, but is interesting as an article. I have referred to it a number of times and the editor list itself shows it is of interest. It has been covered in the National press and is noteworthy enough. Fork me 10:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep I disagree that this is WP:DAFT. I beleive the article is NPOV, verifiable and notable. Due to the methodology used by the bus company to choose names, the people listed should all be notable/famous and expect an article in wikipedia. We have lists of people for other purposes. Would this be different if we renamed the article list of people who feature on Brighton buses? If the answer is that it is too specific an audience you could drop the 'Brighton' part.Smiker 15:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep Can't see why it fails - per Smiker. --SandyDancer 01:23, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. WP:NOT an indiscriminate collection of information. No encyclopedic relevance. Sandstein 23:48, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep, meets all content policies. The links provide by Uncle G establish a level of coverage and interest that permits encyclopedic material to be written. The associated list of names is a useful addition to the article. No opinion on a merge. Christopher Parham (talk) 01:35, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.