Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of COVID-19 deaths in South Africa


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete. There is significant support to merge the content, even among the keep and delete !votes. I’m not quite comfortable calling it as consensus to merge, but that question can be resolved via the ordinary editorial process. Please note that “delete and merge” conflicts with the site license as Merge and delete explains. Chaser (talk) 01:33, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

List of COVID-19 deaths in South Africa

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Per WP:Articles for deletion/List of deaths due to COVID-19 in South Africa. There is no need to have country-specific articles pertaining to notable COVID-19 deaths. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 02:20, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Engr.  Smitty   Werben 02:31, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Engr.  Smitty   Werben 02:31, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. Engr.  Smitty   Werben 02:31, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of COVID-19-related deletion discussions. Engr.  Smitty   Werben 02:31, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete This article serves zero purpose. If said person is notable in their own merit they will have an article already.Super (talk) 03:23, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't understand the second sentence? Each person on the list is notable, and does already have their own article. The purpose of list articles is to make information by subject easily accessible. We have List of sovereign states in spite of each state already being notable and having its own article, because accessing that information in one place is useful, as here. Greenman (talk) 08:53, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Supercopone@undefined, I strongly disagree that it "serves zero purpose" as it was a fork of the Covid-19 pandemic in South Africa article. The list existed there and it was forked as the original article started getting too long.--Discott (talk) 16:16, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

*Merge to List of deaths due to COVID-19. Unless that list gets too long and they decide to split parts of it off into list like this, per country.  D r e a m Focus  15:05, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Waddles 🗩 🖉 06:17, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep The rationale for deletion makes no sense. "Per the previous discussion", when the previous consensus did not end in a delete? The merge discussion did also not succeed - that article is too large, and uncited, and doesn't provide the same functionality. "There is no need" is simply a subjective viewpoint. Each of the entries in this list is notable, and the topic is repeatedly brought up in media, so notability should not be an issue. Greenman (talk) 08:48, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom -- Guerillero Parlez Moi 12:51, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Change to keep since it was determined in the other AFD that that article was too long and should be split out.  D r e a m Focus  20:42, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep I agree with as the justification for this article's deletion makes no sense especially given that it is a 'natural' fork of the Covid-19 pandemic in South Africa article. A merge with  List of deaths due to COVID-19 is not a bad alternative but I suspect that list article is already too long as per Wikipedia article standards. --Discott (talk) 16:16, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * A quick additional note: the original argument that the article is "Redundant" is no longer the case as the original COVID-19 in South Africa article is now too long to support this list being hosted on that article thereby supporting the forking of this to a new list article.--Discott (talk) 16:23, 3 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Relevant information can be merged into other pages. In this AfD, others pointed out that those kinds of lists are not necessary. There are other ways to shorten the article about the COVID-19 pandemic in South Africa but creating an unnecessary content fork is not a way to do it. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 15:53, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * The Covid in South Africa article is long enough already.  D r e a m Focus  20:41, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * If you insist that the length of the page is the problem, then you should raise the idea of splitting the statistics and the timeline. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 02:59, 8 December 2021 (UTC)


 * The AFD you mention has one editor mentioning "Not all of these people even have articles of their own on the English Wikipedia." Also it listed everyone who tested positive for covid, not just those who died from it.  That's why it was deleted.  Totally different situation here.   D r e a m Focus  20:47, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * The article is the only one of its kind. Why should it not be deleted? LSGH (talk) (contributions) 02:59, 8 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Note that Articles_for_deletion/List_of_deaths_due_to_COVID-19_(2nd_nomination) ended with "The result was keep. Consensus is the article needs editing and splitting out, not deletion."  D r e a m Focus  20:41, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Some of those who participated in that AfD suggested that the article should be split by year but not by country. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 02:59, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Most don't care about people they have never heard of, so splitting by country makes more sense. That's a discussion for a talk page though.  If people decide to do it by year instead, then this can be turned into a redirect later on.   D r e a m Focus  03:42, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Mhawk10 (talk) 05:19, 11 December 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   14:13, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge back to List of deaths due to COVID-19. The issue with accessibility can be easily addressed with the sortable features of the main table. Ajf773 (talk) 10:15, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge into List of deaths due to COVID-19, as per Ajf773. MrsSnoozyTurtle 05:11, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep The number of notable people who die in many countries is enough to justify having seperate articles for them. This also makes it much easier to source the entries than in a world-wide article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:50, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. This list would easily meet WP:NLIST. But I'm failing to see what advantage this list has over Category:Deaths from the COVID-19 pandemic in South Africa. The List article has no context section. I don't see the other columns (date of death, age, gender, place of death, and reason for notability) adding any useful context.VR talk 18:23, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Those looking for information aren't just going to click on a random name they don't recognize. Lists are more useful since you can find someone you care about.  A million strangers die, no one notices, but someone they remember seeing in a movie or otherwise take notice of, that's something they respond to.  The age column is useful since if the person is much older than the reader, they might dismissive it.  Same with the time of death, happened early on in, so not a concern.  Place of death is something useful since some will look for who died in the area they live in.   D r e a m Focus  07:15, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Fair points.VR talk 03:25, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep: "There is no need to have country-specific articles pertaining to notable COVID-19 deaths". Why not? The article List of deaths due to COVID-19 is very large, and people might want to learn about COVID-19 deaths in their own country. This article also includes more specific places of death (further geographic relevance) and more detailed "Notability" info relevant to South Africa than the List of deaths due to COVID-19 does. HenryMP02  TALK  07:15, 24 December 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.