Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Carolingians descended from Charles Martel


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  11:21, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

List of Carolingians descended from Charles Martel

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This is somebody's personal exercise in trying to trace all of the supposed descendants of someone famous, but includes whole sections that are dubious, and the only citation is to a primary source that contains almost none of the material shown. Wikipedia is WP:NOTGENEALOGY. Agricolae (talk) 04:59, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I moved it to separate list status for readability from the original article. Since then it has had a lot of editing, although not a lot of different editors, but nobody has claimed it is factually inaccurate. Do you have any reason to think it is wrong? I note that many of the entries have their own articles. Philafrenzy (talk) 09:15, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, let's start by evaluating the few relationships that are not supported by the cited source - oh, my bad, almost all of the relationships are unsupported by the cited source. Agricolae (talk) 00:01, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Agricolae (talk) 05:01, 6 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:LISTN. The Carolingian dynasty is without a doubt a highly notable group, and writing about them goes beyond genealogy. Any problems with accuracy or inadequate sourcing are surmountable. The title is a little redundant (all Carolingians are descended from Charles Martel, him being the 'Carol' in 'Carolingian'), so if kept I suggest it be moved to List of Carolingians or List of descendants of Charles Martel. –&#8239;Joe (talk) 18:16, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Except it is not a list - it is named as if it was a List but the arrangement is that of a genealogy and it is being used to claim specific relationships, some of which are highly speculative. Agricolae (talk) 00:01, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete non-standard formated article, that verges on an indiscriminate list.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:42, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep (on second thoughts). The Carolingian family tree is a notable subject.  It might have been presented in a different format, but that does not matter.  Peterkingiron (talk) 13:43, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * (third thought) REname to Carolingian family tree. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:12, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename to Carolingian family tree, since WP:N and correct name. gidonb (talk) 23:54, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:TNT. We could use a Carolingian family tree, just not this one. Srnec (talk) 00:57, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete -- a good candidate for WP:TNT delete; unsourced original research. K.e.coffman (talk) 07:17, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  A  Train talk 09:34, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete As much as I do think the Carolingian dynasty is notable, this is not serving any use as an article, however it could be archived in userspace, or archived in WikiProject Former countries/Holy Roman Empire task force for reference. Elements of this 'family tree' are used in various articles, and this is a good overview. perhaps it could be used as part of another article like Outline of Carolingian dynasty within the outline article format, for which this could be well suited with modifications. Dysklyver  13:23, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk &bull;&#32;mail) 15:49, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 00:38, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Europe-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 00:39, 22 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.