Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Caucasian Albanian catholicoi


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus was definitely keep. (non-admin closure)  Onel 5969  TT me 01:07, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

List of Caucasian Albanian catholicoi

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Almost unsourced, impossible to verify the content since there are no existing original sources. Those that are verifiable are Catholicoi of Catholicosate of the Armenian Apostolic Church. Article serves no purpose then misleading the reader. Addictedtohistory (talk) 10:37, 23 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep and add verification/citation needed template, there are sources in Russian and Armenian Wikipedias that can be used for the article. Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (talk) 10:47, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 10:57, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albania-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 10:57, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 10:57, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * WP:CITENEED was added since 2013. Armenian WP [] states "Աղվանից եկեղեցի. Հայաստանյայց առաքելական եկեղեցու մի թևը" (Aguank church, a see of Armenian Apostolic Church), not Caucasian Albanian. The Russian WP states "В списке представлены католикосы автокефальной церкви Кавказской Албании, а с начала VIII века автономного[1] Албанского (Агванского) католикосата Армянской Церкви" (The list presents catholicoi of Caucasian Albania, and from 8th century autonomous Aghuank Catholicosate of Armenian Apostolic Church), that is not Caucasian Albanian, hence most of the list is in english article is disputed. Russian and english lists do not even coincide. Addictedtohistory (talk) 11:23, 23 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep with warning templates. A list of heads of the ancient Church of Caucasian Albania belongs in Wikipedia. The other language versions could be used for sources and/or corrections. Meanwhile, the reader is warned not to rely on the list and asked to improve it. The subject is a bit esoteric, so it may take time to get the improvements. Some parts of the list will always be controversial, and the article should state that. The article needs improvement, not deletion. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:25, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. The article presents a list of mostly catholicoi of Armenian Apostolic Church, or in best case not verifiable, as Caucasian Albanian. The sources, as suggested in other wiki languages, do not support that. Addictedtohistory (talk) 13:48, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Strong keep: There are many sources for the continuing lineage of the church for 1500 years from 4th century until 1828 AD. The overlapping with certain periods with the Armenian Apostolic Church is that for many political reasons, the church came under the jurisdiction of the Armenian Apostolic church and its catholicoi were at times appointed or elected by that church. But for many other periods, and this is made clear in the list, the church was an autocephaly. So the list is not identical with Armenian catholicoi, but parallel sometimes overlapping for obvious reasons, but the listing tries to keep the continuous lineage of the church intact. The listing can always be improved and verified, but deleting the lineage of church leaders doesn't serve a purpose except scrapping history of what is actually a Christian "Azerbaijan" when there was no "Azerbaijan" whatsoever and it was actually a Christian nation. It was formally abolished again for political reasons by the Russian authorities and closely related to the Russo-Persian War (1826-1828). werldwayd (talk) 14:23, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep but split the article into autocephalous church era and under Armenian Apostolic church (catholicosate of Aghvank) era list articles, which would be much less misleading than the current version and would make finding citations relatively easier. -  K evo327 (talk) 16:04, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * User:Kevo327 Would you mind doing that, when you got time? Do you have any sources that can substantiate the listed names of catholicoi? Addictedtohistory (talk)17:59, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * please use the reply template for ease of communication. While I don't have any sources now I will definitely look into it in my spare time, we can also reorganise or split the article once it's sufficiently sourced, if another consensus isn't reached. - <b style="color:#d90012"> K </b><b style="color:#000000">evo</b><b style="color:#d90012">3</b><b style="color:#0033a0">2</b><b style="color:#f2a800">7</b> (talk) 23:09, 23 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Strong keep per others. --► Sincerely:  Sola Virum  17:00, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Strong keep -- I take this to be in effect a list of archbishops, which we certainly ought to have. The article gives its source as a particular chronicle.  My guess is that this is the sole source for some of this, in which case we will not be able to do much better.  Differences between Russian and Armenian WP could be issues of transliteration.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:03, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Valid topic, and is reasonably sourced. Grand  master  20:11, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:NBISHOP--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 05:09, 27 December 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.