Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Dallas gangs


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Sourcing is still a concern, I'm willing to userfy for a List of Texas gangs article with reliable sources. Secret account 14:01, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

List of Dallas gangs

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None of the linked gangs are Dallas gangs, no evidence that any many of the others are either --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 15:04, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions.  —--  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 15:18, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Of the gangs on the list:
 * Cuzz Tx. - no article
 * B-Dogg Tx. - redirect to Blood Tx.
 * Blood Tx. - no article
 * Damu Brotherhood - redirect to Blood Tx.
 * Whitehouse Crips - no article
 * DFW (Down For Whatever) - no article
 * Ski Mask - no article
 * RDB (Representin' Da Blue) - no article
 * HRVA (Highland Road Village Apartments) - no article
 * Black P. Stones - Primarily a Chicago gang, not a Dallas one
 * Mara Salvatrucha - North/Central American gang - not Dallas
 * Norteños - Californian gang, not Dallas
 * Sureños - Californian gang, not Dallas
 * Niños Locos - no article
 * Cholo-3 - no article
 * Brown Pride - no article
 * La Eme - no article
 * Chola-3 - no article
 * Ku Klux Klan - not a Dallas "gang" - mainly in strength 1910-1930
 * K3 - no article
 * Aryan Nation - not a Dallas "gang"
 * Aryan Brotherhood - not a Dallas "gang"
 * F.A.M (Famous Asian Mafia) - no article
 * Asian Boyz (gang) - Californian gang, not Dallas
 * TRG (Tiny Raskal Gang) - no article
 * DK (Dallas Koreans) - no article
 * WP - no article
 * Western Park G's (B.G/O.G) - no article
 * Siblings - no article
 * Alpha Brotherhood - no article
 * As the ones which do have articles are not North Texas gangs, let alone Dallas ones, I suspect that several of the others are not North Texas or Dallas ones. I do not feel that this article should be present in Wikipedia, as it is totally inaccurate. --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 15:18, 3 December 2009 (UTC)


 * delete per nom Polarpanda (talk) 15:23, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions.  —--  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 15:33, 3 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. This is original research at best.  I do not believe that this will meet notability guidelines, and I do not see that it provides any useful information. Karanacs (talk) 15:58, 3 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. Pure OR. With sourcing it would be fine, but there is none. --JohnnyB256 (talk) 16:17, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 16:31, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - I don't really know much about gangs in Dallas or anywhere else, but the article is completely unreferenced, and PhantomSteve's argument is compelling. If someone wants to recreate with references showing actual evidence of gangs in Dallas, fine. Lady  of  Shalott  17:27, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Largely red linked list consisting mostly of OR and synthesis. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 20:20, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep The current lack of an article for a gang, doesn't mean it isn't notable. I searched Google news for gang names, and "Texas", and found the Brown Pride gang is quite notable.  The list needs some work, but AFD is not cleanup.  I'm going to do some work on it now, going down the entire list, and eliminate any gang that gets no media coverage at all.   D r e a m Focus  20:39, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I finished going through the entire list. Those with news articles on Google news, got kept, the rest wiped out.  The article is of encyclopedic value.  The news references for every time one of the gangs is mentioned in the news, should be in the gang article.  Working on that now.   D r e a m Focus  21:08, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I still don't think it's salvageable. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 02:34, 4 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment I love the intro, " Only those receiving news coverage in the state of Texas, should be listed", but no citations to any news coverage. It might work as part of a (sourced) article about crime in Dallas.  Mandsford (talk) 02:16, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I checked all of them, as I have said, and found news articles covering them. I just thought adding a link to various newspapers mentioning them whenever they committed a crime, didn't look that great.  If they get news coverage, an article can exist for them elsewhere, the list just doing what a Wikipedia list should do, it not needing references. WP:LIST   D r e a m Focus  10:28, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * My personal feeling is that unless an newspaper article has significant coverage of a specific gang (and identifies it as a Dallas gang), it would not be enough of a reference. If the mention is basically along the lines of "A couple were robbed at knifepoint by members of the ABC Gang, a well-known Hispanic gang in downtown Dallas." then it would not be sufficient. I would expect to see an article which gives details of the gang's history and so on. --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 20:02, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - I think any without an article need to have at least one reference. If there is an article, and it identifies the group as a gand in Texas, fine, but there should be a reference somewhere either in an article or the list itself. Lady  of  Shalott  15:06, 4 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep per Dream Focus and his clean up. Racepacket (talk) 22:25, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong keep per the clean up of dream focus, nice job! Nominator could have discussed the problems with the list, and modified the list per WP:PRESERVE instead of nomination for deletion. Ikip (talk) 22:56, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Although I agree that DreamFocus did a good job, the "TEXAS ATTORNEY GENERAL 2003 GANG SURVEY" is just a survey form, not the results of the survey. Questions 24 and 25 of that survey asks "Do you see influence from any of the following nationally-based gang nations in your jurisdiction?" and "Do you see influence from any of the following Security Threat Groups (STGs), or prison gangs, in your jurisdiction?", and this list appears to be the basis for DreamFocus's list - I can't find the results of the survey results, or other indications that these national gangs/STGs/prison gangs are actually active in Texas (let alone Dallas) --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 09:29, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think they'd ask unless they were in that state, they asking everyone which of these are in their jurisdiction. They don't list every gang there is on there, just the ones seen in Texas.  Perhaps I misread things.  Also, other things on the list were confirmed with Google news search.  Anything that needs to be added or removed in the article, can be discussed there.  There are enough conformable gangs, based on news articles, to warrant a list.   D r e a m Focus  19:00, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * As I said on the talk page, there is no indication why those specific names were included on the survey. It might be that the author was interested in charting specifically those gangs, perhaps across a wider area. Also without the results it is impossible to know if in fact the results were all in the negative - every respondant may have simply said 'No, I never heard of those guys'. Also the survey itself explains that the definition of what constitutes a gang is rather broad, and the definition of what constitutes gang membership equally broad. Having read through a great deal of news items and pdfs on the subject of gangs it seems to me to be impossible to provide verifiable sources showing that most of these gangs have anything to do with texas, and in fact the entire list may be elevating those gangs to a status they don't actually possess. Weakopedia (talk) 07:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete I also couldn't find the results of the survey. As most of the alleged gangs themselves are not notable a list of notoriety seems superfluous. Weakopedia (talk) 09:40, 7 December 2009 (UTC)


 * New source found Searching for the results of the survey, I found a place that searches all .pdf. http://www.pdfgeni.com/book/texas-syndicate-pdf.html Entering in the name of any gang, and "Texas" shows information about them, some from credible government sites. Some gangs are mentioned in the article http://www.oag.state.tx.us/AG_Publications/pdfs/2001gangrept.pdf Look at the section titled Gang Nation.  The search through .pdf files for Texas Gangs http://www.pdfgeni.com/book/Texas-gangs-pdf.html shows many promising results.   D r e a m Focus  19:06, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I looked at a couple of the results there, but had problems with the PDFs not showing properly. I also did Google Searches on all the gangs on the current list. I did a search using the search term "gang name" texas gang, and none of the gangs showed significant results on Google News Archive/Google Scholar/Google Books. They either had no hits at all, or the hits were not about gangs in Texas (e.g. "blah blah in Texas....... in Florida..."). I am afraid that I am not convinced that sufficient reliable sources are available for this article. --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 21:01, 7 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Should we list just Dallas gangs, or are those same gangs found throughout Texas? Perhaps a rename to List of gangs found in Texas.  Or is it different in various cities?   D r e a m Focus  19:16, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If the article is kept, I would suggest moving it to List of Texas gangs or similar, as it would be more accurate. --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 21:08, 7 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep per the clean up of dream focus. See Wikipedia:Editing policy. WP:IMPROVE "Improve pages wherever you can, and do not worry about leaving them imperfect." and "Wikipedia is a work in progress: perfection is not required" and "Try to fix problems: preserve information" This article stills needs more independent references. Some of the external links may be able to be converted into references. Citizen-of-wiki (talk) 03:55, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately the external links cannot be made into useable references and should probably be replaced or deleted. This is shown on the talk page. Weakopedia (talk) 08:14, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Responded on the talk page about the links. Also added links on the talk page, showing news coverage of some of the gangs, and discussions there.  Dallas's newspaper won't let anyone read their full articles without paying for it, but other newspapers in Texas are searchable.   D r e a m Focus  09:35, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.