Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of English footballers not playing in England


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Philippe 05:01, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

List of English footballers not playing in England

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Unsustainable, unmaintainable, useless and permanently-incomplete list of nominal value even if it were ever complete. Cloudz679 (talk) 11:53, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - Useless is incorrect as it's already provided me with info what I didn't know and couldn't easily work out elsewhere. Incomplete is not an issue as most things on wiki are incomplete. Why is it unmaintainable? I suspect it's quite maintenable remember this is the football section that has the number of match appearances on the football player infobox, something that changes about once a week for every active footballer! Footballers moving country doesn't happen anything like as often. SunCreator (talk) 13:37, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete, redundant to Category:English expatriate footballers. Punkmorten (talk) 12:50, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Redundancy between lists and categories is not a valid reason for deletion. Please see CLN.  Celarnor Talk to me  18:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep Lists are often better then categories. See WP:CLN. Red links indicate someone is trying to make a complete list. Red links can't be added into a category. Nor can a category tell you which English footballers are playing in 'Spain' which this list does. I'll Assume good faith that this list is being used usefully and therefore it's a keep. SunCreator (talk) 13:37, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep. This is the list equivalent of the "English expatriate footballers" category and should be kept as such.  Nominators rationale for deletion is extremely flimsy, as Wikipedia is not working toward a deadline and nothing on Wikipedia will ever be complete.  Combined with the guidelines put forth in CLN, which the nominator is probably not aware of, there is no real reason to delete this.  Celarnor Talk to me  18:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 19:37, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Not required if we have a category, and per previous AfD discussions on identical categories. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  10:23, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Please review CLN: "These methods should not be considered to be in conflict with each other. Rather, they are synergistic, each one complementing the others. For example, since editors differ in style, some favor building lists while others favor building categories, allowing links to be gathered in two different ways, with lists often leapfrogging categories, and vice versa. This approach has resulted in two main link-based systems of navigating Wikipedia. See the navigation menu at the top of Wikipedia:Contents, and see Category:Categories. Many users prefer to browse Wikipedia through its lists, while others prefer to navigate by category; and lists are more obvious to beginners, who may not discover the category system right away. Therefore, the "category camp" should not delete or dismantle Wikipedia's lists, and the "list camp" shouldn't tear down Wikipedia's category system - doing so wastes valuable resources. Instead, each should be used to update the other." Celarnor Talk to me 15:48, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually I reviewed it before !voting having seen it cited in rebuttal to another delete !vote. However, it also states that the guideline "should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception." My opinion is that this list is an exception to the rule as it is quite a trivial subject in comparison to, say, List of cities in Israel and I think the category is more than enough to cover it. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  16:57, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Can a category list short summaries of the players? Can a category group them by the locations that they are playing in?  There are reasons that redundancy between lists and and an accompanying category isn't a reason for deletion, and one of them is that lists can do a lot more for a human reader than a category can.  Celarnor Talk to me  18:25, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete - unreferenced, out of date and lacking many players; content already covered by a category anyway. GiantSnowman (talk) 23:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This is an improvement argument, not a deletion argument. Per BEFORE and DEL, if something can be fixed without deleting it, then it isn't a very good candidate for deletion.  Also, coverage in a category isn't a good rationale for deletion of a list, since they are meant to be synergistic, with each making up for the others weaknesses.  The deletion of this list would put a hole in the list navigation system, much in the same way that deleting the category would put a hole in the category system.  Celarnor <sup style="color:#7733ff;">Talk to me  23:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.