Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Final Fantasy cast members


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was no consensus for deletion. Please take further redirect and merge discussions to the talk page of the article. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 21:39, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

List of Final Fantasy cast members

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Not sure what's up with it but a bot created this article. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate list of information. Kariteh 21:17, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment This would have been easier if these "CFD maintenance" bots would link to the CFD decision they claim to be implementing. As far as I can tell, there was a mass-CFD for all Actors by series categories in January 2007, for which the long-winded decision concluded "delete any category on this list after a suitable list has been created and several interested people agree that this is a suitable alternative" (emphasis in the original), and also to rename all the categories from "actors" to "cast". It then appears that sometime around April 2007 RedWolf decided to use his bot to create crappy lists and to then delete the categories without seeking several interested people to determine that the list was a suitable alternative. IMO, RedWolf's action did not respect the original CFD decision. Anomie 22:58, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * So, my "vote" is for Recreate Category:Final Fantasy cast members until someone creates a list here that actually respects the CFD decision, although I suspect deletionists would re-CFD it before that actually happens. Anomie 22:58, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - The recreation of deleted content is highly disruptive. Dr. Submillimeter 08:43, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * So is the deletion of content against consensus. Anomie 12:49, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The possibility of recreation is not a valid argument. See WP:BHTT. Kariteh 13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete and don't worry about the category. The Final Fantasy series has a broad, ever-shifting voice cast, and the core development cast is already prominently linked whereever relevant. This single list would bring together the cast and development staff of a dozen plus games, and you know when you've got a list with many people who never worked together in the same place at the same time that it's overbroad. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:07, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletions.   -- Bduke 00:02, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NOT, which says WP is not a directory Corpx 01:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep or merge with Final Fantasy (series), because this list concerns one of the most enduring and popular video game systems in video game history and so it is likely that readers will be interested in this kind of information, even if some find it obscure. --  Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles  Tally-ho! 02:07, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * User interest should not be a concern when it violates policy Corpx 02:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Aren't things like NOT, not policies, but guidelines? -- Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles  Tally-ho! 02:46, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Go take a look at the top of the WP:NOT page. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 03:09, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete The list, as currently constructed, is useless. I could buy the concept if the list detailed who they voiced, what games, etc, but a bare list of names does not add to the project at all. Resolute 03:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Over at CFD we spent months working on getting all the cast member categories listified. During discussions, we assured the people who maintained the categories that no information would be destroyed when the categories were removed and more detailed information could be added to the lists.  PLEASE! don't delete these lists.  If you do, people will start recreating the categories.  This information makes much more sense as a list than as a category.  I think it is impractical to say that cast lists should not have any home on Wikipedia.  People will continue to add this information faster than we can remove it.  Let it exist on lists.  That is the most appropriate form this information can take. I don't think that WP:NOT applies to these lists. -- &#x2611; Sam uelWantman 06:56, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * So, this stubby, random directory list should exist because there is a risk that people will create some inappropriate category elsewhere? I didn't know that it's how Wikipedia functions. If a category exists and shouldn't, it has to be deleted, that's all. Just because it can be tedious to do it repeatedly doesn't mean we have to violate WP:NOT (this list is an indiscriminate list of information) and create a random directory list just to avoid this problem. Kariteh 08:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * See the referenced CFD. The list was created because someone wanted to delete the category, and by creating this useless list they only had to ignore half of the CFD resolution instead of all of it. Anomie 12:53, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - This is not an indiscriminate list of information. It lists the people who have performed on this particular show, and if cleaned up and annotated, it could be a useful supplement to the main article on the show.  Also, see Categories for discussion/Log/2007 January 25.  Using categories for cast members became a nightmare, as actors may perform in many films and TV shows during their careers.  The resulting block of category links at the bottoms of the articles for some actors became very difficult to read.  Turning these lists back into categories would be highly disruptive.  Dr. Submillimeter 08:43, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Just to let you know, this isn't a show. It's a video game series. Each different video game has completely different characters and therefore voice actors. It's a different concept to television shows, or a singular game. --Teggles 09:43, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Whatever happens, do not categorize. As explained above, this is neither quite "indiscriminate information" by any definition of the term, nor information that can readily stand anywhere else. Circeus 09:07, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment As it stands now, this list is as pointless as a page listing the ingredients in, say, Pepsi would be. I don't why, though, the page couldn't be turned into a proper list, showing what their roles were, which language edition, etc. But that would have to be done, of course. Leaving it as it is is a waste. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 14:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Do not categorize Cast lists should almost never be done as categories. Leave either as a list article or merge the cast list into the main article for the show. See WP:OCAT for why cast lists should not be done as categories. Dugwiki 16:01, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable list to me. Just needs work. --Hemlock Martinis 18:06, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Highly unnecessary list of stuff with no context, other than the fact that it's a list of voice actors who played in FF games, without the names of the characters they played, and from what games they come.  As it is now, this has no purpose, especially when one can and should look at the articles for Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus, Final Fantasy X, et al, for the cast and credits for the games (and movie). Maikeru 18:29, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, this is not a useful or necessary intersection of data. Individual cast is more practical but those can be found in numerous other places (I can think of MobyGames which does a nice job of including profiles on what projects certain people have been involved in). Axem Titanium 14:37, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename to List of Final Fantasy voice actors; or merge and redirect to the video game series article or a list of characters. Since all-capital-letter links to a particular essay and certain policies seem to be all the rage right now in WP:AfD, let me say that WP:JUSTAPOLICY is no more a valid argument than WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Simply stating that something is an "indiscriminate list" or a "directory" does not make it so. Nobody has presented any valid argument as to why a WP:LIST of WP:NOTABLE voice actors in a WP:NOTABLE video game series, which is WP:VERIFIABLE and WP:ATTributable to WP:ReliableSources, is WP:NPOV and not WP:ORiginal research, would be considered an "indiscriminate list" or a "directory". A cast list is a well-defined, finite, list, which is a perfectly valid criteria meeting the WP:LIST guidelines, as typically actors are notable for the very reason of being in certain notable television shows, films, and video games. And cast categories are usually not appopriate for the very good reasons given in WP:OCAT. DHowell 02:36, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, rename to voice actors, and cleanup as per DHowell. It's a factual list that can very easily be complete; while it should obviously be better organized (by game is probably a good start), there's nothing harmful about it, and it's not indiscriminate.  If Wikipedia is going to have this information - which I don't see why not - then a list is far preferable to a category. SnowFire 04:08, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * merge and redirect - article provides zero information, except that the person was a cast member on at least one show. It is therefore not encyclopedic; and any encyclopedic treatment you could provide for this list would be better off appearing in the main article (e.g. as a "cast" section for regular cast, and under a "trivia" section for special appearances). DHowell and SnowFire, my reasoning is that any article on Wikipedia should be externally verifiable, notable, and not copyvio or libel; but also, that it should be encyclopedic, i.e. that it a topic deserving of independent treatment, that can be presented as if it were in an encyclopedia. I do think lists can be encyclopedic, and I do think they can stand on their own sometimes - but I feel this article fails those tests. Feel free to disagree. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad 17:54, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * comment - see Notable actors in Coronation Street for an example of how a "list of actors" can approach the state of an encyclopedic article. It's not great, but it's certainly more than a simple list of names. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad 18:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.