Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Hindi songs recorded by Asha Bhosle (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure)  ❯❯❯  Raydann  (Talk)   21:51, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

List of Hindi songs recorded by Asha Bhosle
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Fails WP:NLIST. Note that WP:NOTDATABASE applies. Few, if any, tracks pass WP:NMUSIC. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 10:05, 24 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment Personally I have never felt there is much point to having policy or policy arguments about deleting this kind of thing. It is hurting no one, and it's potentially useful to someone.
 * Of course Wikipedia needs to have notability guidelines. Otherwise, the encyclopedia would be cluttered by random individuals and their personal projects, or become the place to publicize small businesses - which would confuse readers and hurt its actual goals. However, this is not such a case, and the singer here is clearly notable.
 * If there is a page listing all her songs, does it hurt our readers?
 * Anyway, that's my two cents on a first principles basis. I made it a comment rather than a keep !vote, because it does not cite policy. CharredShorthand (talk) 11:13, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:NOTDIRECTORY is a precident for this exact reason. Other websites already do a perfectly good job at this, Wikipedia is not the place for it. FishandChipper 🐟🍟 20:51, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @CharredShorthand: I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. And @FishandChipper: The concept of WP is not really very well defined. I consider it a beacon of knowledge and information. The more the merrier. I really can't understand those who feel so strongly about deleting any article really. So yes, it might need polishing and sourcing, but who does it harm? Inclusivity is the right path to everything. Just an opinion, of course. Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  15:34, 27 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music, Lists,  and India. Shellwood (talk) 11:24, 24 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep - clearly and notable and legit list which is nowhere close to WP:NOTDATABASE. The previous nomination closed following withdrawal and a deletion review. Bhosle happens to have been cited by the Guinness Book of World Records as the most recorded singer in history, so it's funny WP wouldn't list her recorded songs. Claims of no individual notability of every song go against WP:NLIST. Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  11:53, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep The argument presented in the nomination was already rejected in the previous AfD. No indication that anything has changed. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  18:12, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep Information is given appropriate context and is regarding a notable subject. As above, this nom provides no new argument not already decided upon in prior AfD, nor have changes to article reflected the need for reconsideration. Bgv. (talk)
 * Keep - Veteran artist. She is known to atleast 50% of the globe's population. Has sung over 12,)00 songs across the languages. One of the top 5 most prolific singers of all time and mamy of her songs are available and traceable in the internet, databases such as hindigeetmala.org or muvyz.com. She was inducted to Guinness Book of World Records for singing most number of songs and almost 65% of her all songs are listed in his article. Have atleast 100 references. Abbasulu (talk) 08:11, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - not seeing an NLIST failure, nor a reason why consensus would have changed in the 7 months since the last AfD resulted in keep. Rlendog (talk) 19:21, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Rlendog: If you enter the category, almost all the lists of recorded songs by Indian singers are up for deletion, and this one by Bhosle, for example, has been deleted despite two keeps and one delete, which I don't think constitute consensus, not even a weak one, to delete. Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  10:56, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the best way to ensure that those articles are not deleted is to add sources for each (or at least most) of the songs in the list. Most of the articles that have been proposed for deletion are in worse shape from a sourcing perspective than this one, and this one is pretty poor (even though I think there is enough to justify retaining the article, subject to adding sources or purging the unsourced material). Rlendog (talk) 16:12, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment It worries me a bit the number of keep !votes on this Afd when there is serious problems with this article and many other articles of the same type that this editor has created, that is not being addressed. While Afd is not cleanup, it should really be WP:TNT'd and started again. The reasons for this are many and varied. First it is a maintenance nightmare, there is no information on the songs making them virtually impossible to identify. There has been no filtering on the songs to define exactly what is notable and what is not, per norms, making them all effectively non-notable. They have not been checked, merely copied and pasted from various Wikipedia article, clickbait sites and sites similar to discogs, which makes them a WP:V nightmare because they are not correctly filtered for notability. The referencing has been approached in a similar sloppy manner. The very very poor referencing has been made on the film for some reason, in fits and starts, which is again outside norms with the expectation that it will satisfy the average editor, when its the usual practice, i.e consensus to reference every line in the table. So right away it fails WP:V. What is the most egregious aspect of this editor based on the previous Afd, is that the editor has used that as an execuse to create reams of them, all of them mostly unsourced making them effectively structured lists that fail WP:SIGCOV, WP:V and WP:NLIST and WP:DEL14. They should be all WP:TNT'd and if the editor is serious about having them on WP, create them again as proper referenced list article that confirm to consensus, WP:NLIST and WP:MOS and WP:SIGCOV. Because this mess certainly doesn't.    scope_creep Talk  14:11, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * This and several previous comments have pretty much convinced me that this list in its current form is untenable, not because of an issue with it as a whole but because the verifiability of any given song's details is nonexistent given the poor sourcing. It should either be slimmed down to only those items for which RS exists, if anyone feels capable of tackling such a task given its length, or it should be deleted without prejudice to recreation provided that verifiability is kept in mind from the start.  17:54, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I do not necessarily see it as a list of songs, but in a sense a list of films. It can be easily sourced to reliable sources as is, the question is what to do if it gets too heavy and might thus require even additional subpages for each year or decade. She's too prolific (been cited by the Guinness Book of World Records as the most recorded singer in history). I don't think every song or film should be individually sourced, by the way. There are many lists where the reference is provided in advance. Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  18:30, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It's fine if one RS covers many songs when such an RS exists - but I don't think many of the current sources are RS by our definition. In an ideal world I don't see why this list couldn't work - surely there are reliable primary or secondary sources for most of the movies' songs - but in its current form and in line with Wikipedia's expectations and requirements for sourcing, it does have real problems.  12:59, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * As far as I've seen the songs are from films. I am not into this matter, but wouldn't Asha Bhosle be credited in the films for her songs? If so, then the primary sources are right there. Daranios (talk) 16:04, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * That's a good point! At least assuming most those films are available/not lost media, and assuming all the songs are credited individually...? (I'm not sure if this is the case or not.)
 * I must admit to some unease when the source that's actually being used in practice is a user-generated site like Discogs. (At least, I'm assuming no one has so far been finding the actual movie to check the credits.)
 * But yes, that does help with verifiability.  16:16, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep Discographies for notable singers are a standing part of Wikipedia, and if they are too long to include in the artists page, splitting them out seems the way to go. The fact that an artist is so sucessfull that the discography becomes very long is hardly an argument not to have it. The solution for problems of WP:Length is usually splitting, not deletion. The notability of Asha Bhosle does not seem to be in question, and also her songs have been discussed as a group in the given Guiness Book of Records and other secondary sources like this or this as examples. Not sure if splitting by language is the best way, though. Daranios (talk) 16:04, 30 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment - I must say that many pages of the sort are currently up for deletion and, surprisingly, this AfD appears to have brought about the most fruitful and productive debate in regard to song lists of Indian playback singers, especially in the points raised by and, which have practical implications on how to improve these pages rather than just get rid of them. This is quite refreshing in the current sea of similar AfDs where the common rationale boils down to what I sadly recognise as personal, fixed position (because most policies cited are often irrelevant). That's why I'm upset that so many lists are nominated individually for deletion, and thus some are likely to be deleted. I've tried to ask for help and get all these AfDs merged into one. I see that similar AFDs at the moment, like those of Lata Mangeshkar and Chithra (also very prolific, the former also a Guinness Book World record holder for a long time, although the page does seem to have generated support for keep), to name a few, could have benefitted from a similar conversation about how to save these pages, and not look for every possible reason to delete them. That's what I believe the spirit of WP should be. Deletion/removal is always the easier route. I for one feel greatly appreciative of the one who spent so much time and put so much effort into creating these lists, even if it just means copy-pasting them all from other sources. I know that particular user did violate some policies in the process, but I assume good faith, just as I do on all those who nominate pages for deletion or vote to delete them. I urge everyone to rethink their position and see how these pages, which are very informative, can be saved.  Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  00:22, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep One of the most famous singers in the world, just needs sourcing and more information. These renominations are getting tedious.♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:45, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.