Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Irgun attacks during the 1930s


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Keep (non-admin closure). There is a rough consensus to keep. As I can judge independent sources do exist, and I do not understand how a mere list of real events can "fail to maintain neutral point of view". Ruslik (talk) 12:08, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

List of Irgun attacks during the 1930s

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The article consists of a list of attacks, many of them deliberate and against civilians, and attributes them to an organization, some of whose members may still be living. Statements of this nature should cite inline several strongly reliable sources. Instead, the main source for the claims is apparently not in English, and may be by militant sympathizers, who are not reliable secondary sources. Andjam (talk) 14:24, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.   — Cliff smith  talk  17:10, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Weak delete - notability is established, but no main reliable sources are present to source these strong claims.-- S R X  14:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. Considering the historic nature of the event - and the fact it happened 70 years ago - makes me hesitant to call for deletion, but the sourcing issue is real, too, so I can't vote 100% keep either. Can any of the sources in the Great Uprising article be used to shore up the sources on this list article? I have concern that a potentially viable list might be sacrificed simply because Internet sourcing is insufficient. I'm torn because this satisifies WP:N and while WP:BLP may be an issue, realistically most of those involved aren't covered by that anymore. It could be argued that topics relating to World War I could still fall under BLP, too, even though realistically there's only a handful of people left from that era, too. 23skidoo (talk) 17:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.   —Nick Dowling (talk) 00:26, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep but add inline citations for each claimed attack. A request for these citations seems to have been made on the article's talk page only two weeks ago and deletion seems premature. As no individuals are named in the article, I don't see why WP:BLP is relevant. Nick Dowling (talk) 00:32, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Weak delete per SRX and nom.Nrswanson (talk) 06:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. In addition to verifiability issues this article also has significant inherent issues with respect to WP:NPOV.  If merged into one of the articles (Great Uprising) there could be some context but a "list of attacks" definitely fails to maintain neutral point of view. |►  ϋrban яenewaℓ  •  TALK  ◄| 18:27, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,   Sandstein   16:24, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep That there were attacks by this organization in the specified period is clear. Any specific attacks which are not adequately referenced can be tagged with a fact tag and if not refs are found, deleted. The list is cited to Perliger and Weinberg, and discussion on the article's talk page leads me to believe it is an account of the attacks sourced to former Irgun officials. Deletion is not a substitute for editing of an article about notable events in history. These notable events occurred over 68 years ago. Newspapers at the time covered them extensively, but it is not as easy to get access to them as for more recent papers, without paying high fees. One example is  from 1939. Newspaperarchive.com has a number of paywalled stories from the 1930s about Irgun attacks on Arabs: "Sep. 27, 1938, Chester Times, "Young Jews to war on Arabs." says Irgun plans to kill an Arab for every Jew, and that they had killed 200 Arabs so far in the campaign.. An article the following day "Jews map plans against Arabs" said that Irgun usually killed 40 to 50 Arabs with each bomb. They considered their actions reprisals. Edison (talk) 19:23, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep There is no historical dispute about these attacks in general,  or any serious sourcing problems.  As the talk page makes clear, the Perliger-Weinberg article, the Bowyer-Bell book and the free Palestine Post archive link I just added provide sources.  User:Zero0000, an academic in this area, who hasn't been around for a while unfortunately, went through the list some time ago.John Z (talk) 22:38, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep This looks like a perfect article to me, sorry if it isn't because I'm pretty new in this site. Is "andjam" trying to censor Irgun terrorist attacks, however? --Soberreh (talk) 11:56, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.