Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Irish Americans


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. The Bushranger One ping only 05:47, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

List of Irish Americans

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Article does not meet WP:NOTDIRECTORY, specifically item 1 - the entries in this list are not constrained to those who "are famous because they are associated with or significantly contribute to the list topic." Tgeairn (talk) 01:39, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. &#9733;&#9734;  DUCK IS PEANUTBUTTER &#9734;&#9733; 02:10, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. &#9733;&#9734;  DUCK IS PEANUTBUTTER &#9734;&#9733; 02:10, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. &#9733;&#9734;  DUCK IS PEANUTBUTTER &#9734;&#9733; 02:10, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep Meets the guidance of WP:LISTPEOPLE and WP:LISTN. WP:NOTDIRECTORY is a poorly drafted policy as it is mostly a ragbag of pet peeves and uses language such as loosely associated which is itself too loose to be helpful.  Warden (talk) 09:34, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * NOTE: The discussion at Articles for deletion/List of Czech Americans‎ may be relevant to this discussion. --Tgeairn (talk) 15:57, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * keep. The requirement for inclusion in this list is that the person is Irish American and notable.  It has never been, and does now need to be changed to, that they are notable due to their ancestry as an Irish.  That would be a silly requirement: one is not a notible businessperson or scientist or whatever because of one's national background.  People are notable because they have a WP article (by WP definition, notable) or have citations showing they are notable and would qualify for a WP article were it to be written.  Hmains (talk) 20:07, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep per the above comments and cited policies and guidelines, as well as per WP:CLN. Re: the nominator's WP:NOTDIR argument, a list of notable Irish Americans does arguably "significantly contribute to the list topic." The nom's apparent interpretation of NOTDIR (that only lists of X are permitted when X is why those things are "famous", with I assume "famous" = merits an article) does not reflect consensus or even common sense. Obviously we have many completely uncontroversial lists (i.e., indexes) of notable people, places, and things that are not about why those things are famous or merit articles, to the extent one can even objectively ascertain why someone or something is "famous". Many are featured lists that contradict the nom's supposed policy principle, such as List of Dartmouth College alumni (not limited to people famous because they are alumni of Dartmouth, if there are any such people). Otherwise, there would also go all lists of people by fundamental biographical data (no one is famous because they died in 2012 or because they are from London), or indeed even basic indexes of notable things by their most defining characteristics (e.g., no newspaper is notable because it is published in Ohio). So I would hope it would be clear that the nom's deletion rationale is not a workable or desirable principle to enforce, in addition to being unsupported by consensus (and therefore not policy). And if NOTDIR can be read as contrary to that, then NOTDIR itself is in error and needs to be rewritten. postdlf (talk) 21:44, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Re: Nomination - While it may be that NOTDIR needs to be rewritten, please be clear that I directly quoted NOTDIR #1 in the nomination. Yes, OtherStuffExists. The question for this AfD is whether or not this article meets our requirements, and I assert that the quoted text of NOTDIR at the very least implies that it doesn't. Let's please keep the discussion to this article in relation to existing policies for inclusion. Thanks --Tgeairn (talk) 02:53, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Nonsense. You have offered an abstract rule as supposed policy and are insisting this list should be deleted solely for failing that rule. I have given many examples that prove your rule is not helpful in building the encyclopedia, and is contrary to consensus and so is not policy; so there remains no valid reason offered for deleting this list. Try to come up with a more specific deletion rationale if you would like a more specific counterargument. postdlf (talk) 05:39, 9 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep It does help to know the history of the United States of America is one aware that quite a lot of Americans are of Irish ancestry; this article will help people to appreciate that fact. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 23:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.