Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Jewish inventors


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was no consensus; keep. Johnleemk | Talk 10:08, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

List of Jewish inventors
After attempts at reform on the talk page - of which were ignored - I have decided to put this list up for deletion on the basis that it is highly extraneous, unprecedented by any other nationality, religious group, or ethnicity, and frankly listcruft. As a category, this would be appropriate, seminally. However, as a list it is too broad, not well defined, and all in all highly unnecessary. Anyway, Strong Delete and possible reform into category. Antidote 21:22, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep. Very important information in list form. We need more of this for other religions. -- JJay 21:31, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Important? In what way? How many people exactly go on Wikipedia looking for inventors based on their religion? Antidote 21:36, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Lots of people. Same as with all the other info in this encyclopedia. I get 1.5 million google hits for inventor and religion. How do you explain that? The fact that you don't like the information, does not mean that it is not useful for many people. Was your nom in bad faith? -- JJay 21:44, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Google hits have no basis for this - as there are many google hits for academics and political party as well - but I highly doubt List of Republican inventors will ever be made. Also, your accusations of bad faith are uncalled for and rather immature, apparently whims as you seem to disagree vehemently with any deletions of religious lists. Antidote 21:52, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It's strangely revealing that you see a question as an accusation. A simple no would have sufficed. -- JJay 22:05, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It's even more strange for someone to ask a question like that - even moreso strangely revealing of the giver's opinion. Would you really expect a bad faith editor to put "Yes I nominated this in bad faith" - grow up. Antidote 22:16, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * My opinion is stated above. My feeling is that you nominated this when you failed to get a response on the article talk page. That's not a very good reason for Afd. I also fail to see why you feel compelled to resort to name calling. -- JJay 22:23, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I nominated this because I thought it should be deleted or majorly reformed - but now that I think about it the best move is to delete as I see no reform available. What name-calling?.


 * Wouldn't a category be better for this? Friday (talk) 21:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I mentioned that above. Antidote 21:46, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Er, yeah, sorry. Anyway, delete this article, use a category if anyone wants to create it.  Friday (talk) 21:58, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete Create category and move contents into that category. TheRingess 21:48, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Per TheRingess. --Edcolins 22:19, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - There are many other lists of less utility. It is useful, particularly in list format.  A category would be fine, but keep the list as well. --Dschor 00:09, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * i don't see how there being lists of less utility qualifies for keeping this - if there are worse lists...delete them too. Antidote 03:21, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete, all lists that can be converted to categories, like this one.Gateman1997 00:18, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, make into category. I'll gladly help, although ones are usually made by nationality and I'm sure they already include most of these people in them. EscapeArtistsNeverDie 01:36, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * this user is a suspected sockpuppet of the nominator, see Requests for comment/Antidote/Voting, Requests for comment/Antidote. Arniep 02:39, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete per nominator. Pilatus 03:24, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. Eusebeus 07:49, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Please remember that lists and categories serve different purposes and that both can coexist without the need for deletion. Categorizing this would lead to the loss of numerous red-links which could spark the creation of articles on notable Jewish inventors. Only delete if this information is stored in an appropriate wikiproject first. - Mgm|(talk) 12:08, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You mean, for some reason, WikiProject Jewish Inventors hasn't taken off?!? Weird!  :) Friday (talk) 14:28, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I was thinking more along the lines of WikiProject Science or something. - Mgm|(talk) 08:30, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete yet another list of Jewish x. Categories, people! Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 12:19, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete list cruft. --Bachrach44 15:47, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep &mdash; contains information that wouldn't be in a category. &mdash; RJH 17:08, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * We can easily make stubs... but from a scan of this list some people don't necessarily merit an article. Antidote 20:50, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Which ones? They all look fairly important. -- JJay 20:55, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Well since you demand an example - Avraham (Abraham) Cresas. Plus to notify some errors: Ludwig Mies seems like another error on this list plus calling him the inventor of industrial design is a bit farflung. Antidote 21:43, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Sorry to be so demanding... so since you found one or two mistakes, that justifes ditching the info on the 50 redlinks in the list? Oh wait, I forgot, you are going to make stubs for those people. Let me know when you start, so I can help out. -- JJay 21:47, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Fine, we'll make them together. I have no problem with that. Antidote 23:21, 11 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete, listcruft. Pavel Vozenilek 22:11, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong keep bad WP:FAITH nomination, article was nominated by user suspected of voting multiple times to delete Jewish lists, and the user has voted twice on this afd, see Requests for comment/Antidote/Voting, Requests for comment/Antidote. Arniep 02:38, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * This is 'suspected' by Arniep. And I maintain no meatpuppet relations with User:EscapeArtistsNeverDie on the RFC. Plus, this has no bearing on the reason for deletion of this thread. It may be a way to just circumvent the opinion on this AFD. Especially calling this a bad faith nomination though I clearly explicated my reasoning and ATTEMPTED to ask for reforms on the TALK page. It also may be further attempts to keep all the excess lists worked on and created by the people who hold a virtual monopoly on these pages - in other words, not allowing any outside view. If we want to bring out credibility, then please note the behaviour of User:Arniep during the times previous AFDS on Jewish lists were brought up. Nonetheless, I do not see his behavoir or my suspected behavior to have any bearing on the keep or delete basis of this list. Antidote 20:20, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I advise users to look at Requests for comment/Antidote to judge for themselves this user's behaviour. Arniep 20:26, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Sure, anyone can judge my behavior for themselves, but you are only ASSUMING that this is a bad faith nomination and have no proof that this is - especialyl considering I wrote everything I could about why I nominated it AND attempted to reform before deleting. I would wholy appreciate you reconsider throwing out accusations that are unsound in this specific case. If you want to vote keep then do - but my credibility has nothing to do with the reasons this list should go. Antidote 21:11, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete, ill-advised listcruft. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 18:58, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong keep - the only grounds for deletion seem to be that nobody has bothered to produce similar lists for other ethnic groups - rotten reason. - Londoneye 19:02, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Please note all the reasons I have listed above - then explain why you claim that is the only grounds. Also, deleting a list because one does not wish to start a revolution of ethnic battling on wikipedia with List of German inventors, List of Chinese inventors, and List of Native Inuit Eskimo inventors and because a category is clearly the appropriate usage here is in no way a rotten reason. It is surely more "rotten" to just vote keep on all lists you may have a preference for regardless of others attempts to improve (I mentioned before I will make as many stubs as I can for these) or revise (move to a category) them. Antidote 20:24, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Lists certainly do have usefulness. Categories are limited to the number of people that can be shown on one page, whereas lists can be scanned easily. Lists allow you to see names in context with descriptions and explanation, categories do not. I hardly see how your "ethnic battling" argument holds ground when you yourself recently created Category:Slovak inventors and Category:Serbian inventors. Regards Arniep 20:31, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you're talking about. I didn't make the categories. Besides, I said before that I AGREE with categories - they are helpful - and I will gladly make one for that list for deletion. What I meant by ethnic battling is that LISTS of this specific nature do not have a basis for existing since they are all separate articles - made to explicitly highlight themselves. Categories on the other hand are PART of a larger category. You don't expect that if a list of Jewish inventors survives the Germans, the English, the Catholics won't want to make their own lists and TONS of other peoples with specific adherences?! THAT indeed is a creation-war on ethnic lines (and other lines, like sexual preference). It will spark listmania which many users here don't appreciate or like much. Antidote 21:04, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You did make the categories. Regards Arniep 22:49, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Interestingly, not to my knowledge. Ciao. Antidote 23:29, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * A category is not the only appropriate answer here. First, you only attempted to make stubs because the list existed, which is somewhat ironic, considering you want it deleted. Second, how are anons, now banned from creating new pages, supposed to add new people to categories? -- JJay 20:37, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I thought the anon ban was only temporary. But anyway, there are many things anons can't do but we're not flipping Wikipedia upside down just to give them more priveleges. I don't think many people are complaining anons can't upload images. Also, there exist lists for these people. They are called lists by country and Jews have plenty of them. All that is needed is to place a red name in List of Jewish Americans or List of British Jews and it will get the same treatment as here. Your arguments I can understand but they do not really help support this lists reason for surviving. Antidote 21:15, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, it's helping you to make stubs. That's one good reason. That's called improving the information available at wikipedia. Your second reason is false. If I want to add a Jewish inventor to a list, List of Jewish Americans points me to other lists, namely this list that you want to delete. There are no names in List of Jewish Americans, which I believe is one of the results of your reform process. Any name added to that list would likely get reverted as vandalism. -- JJay 21:26, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Maybe you misinterpreted me. My point was that nationaltiy articles already exist for red names for Jewish people, so there's really no point of having this list. You can easily add these names to the sublists of Jewish Americans or to all the other Jewish country lists. As a matter of fact, they will probably be made faster on those. BUT if you DO want a separate area just for Jewish inventors (which ok..theres no problem there) then what's wrong with a category? Everyone else does it. Antidote 21:40, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * what's wrong is your continuing concentration on deleting Jewish lists and your voting multiple times on them (see Requests for comment/Antidote/Voting). Regards Arniep 22:53, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Which is your claim that I have responded to - furthermore I already stated that I am done trying to convince you. Antidote 23:29, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Strong keep per JJay. --Pecher 09:32, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong keep. I don't understand most of the arguments for deletion, and those I do understand are jolly weak. - Newport 12:29, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete because the connection between "Jewishness" and "inventors" is highly subjective and seems to be more of a psychological projection of something (maybe anything?) in some people's minds, than anything truly scholarly. IZAK 14:53, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * surely the same reasoning could be applied to American, Slovak or Serbian inventors. I don't usually look for inventors by nationality, I generally look for them by subject area. Arniep 20:41, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Boring discussion. Vulturell 22:46, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.