Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Jews from New York City


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. joe deckertalk 02:52, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

List of Jews from New York City

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Completely useless list. Fraught with typographical and stylistic errors and comes nowhere near the scope of what this article should include, namely being hundreds if not thousands of entries longer. Even if it were an accurate and full list it would add nothing to the encyclopedia, but as it is not even that, it is less than useless. JesseRafe (talk) 01:42, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep more than satisfies WP:GNG and WP:BLPCAT. The history of Jews in New York City is a well-known part of American culture.--Prisencolin (talk) 06:42, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment A "strong" keep? Did you read the article or just see the title? This was very recently created and only edited by a few editors who have very few edits among them and almost every entry has flaws in style or substance. And the article comes nowhere near the scope of its intended topic, just seems like a vanity page/project for the User:Ethanjesse who has already blanked this page. JesseRafe (talk) 06:47, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

I think this article is very relevant, your argument doesn't have any reasoning to delete it. New York is one the most largely populated Jewish areas in the world. As this list shows, there are also many famous people. I also worked very hard on creating, researching, editing, and writing this page. It took me 8 weeks to create this. This is one of my first Wikipedia creates, and I don't think this should be deleted.

How is this article "useless"? This lists over 70 famous people from New York City. This article is error free and accurate.
 * Comment User:EthanDobres (above unsigned) is unambiguously the same user as User:Ethanjesse given their short contribution history and significant overlap. This is the second time this user has interfered with this proceeding. JesseRafe (talk) 21:38, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Topical comment The article is useless, for the following reasons: It is not an article it is a list. As such it is wp:listcruft and has no substantive merit. While the assertion that it "lists over 70 famous people from New York City" may be true - why does that matter? There are over a hundred thousand famous people from NYC. And tens of thousands of them are Jewish. Thus this article fails to achieve what it sets out to do, and why should it even try to do that? What purpose does an endless serve? Should this be converted into an endless list of thousands of entries? What is the encyclopedic value of that? As to whether it is "error free" or/and "accurate" that is patently false. Ethan Jesse Dobres, since you are one person, please learn how to use capital letters. I see that you actually are 11 years old, not merely someone who writes like one. This article, much like the Mandel Brothers piece seem to be unambiguous vanity pieces written by someone just for the sake of writing one. They are unencyclopedic and both have a tenuous grasp on basic English sentence structure and punctuation/capitalization norms. JesseRafe (talk) 22:10, 16 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Note to closing administrator. Ethanjesse and EthanDobres are ✅ socks. See Sockpuppet investigations/Ethanjesse.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:45, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete The Jewishness and notability criteria are POV. Such a list can be added to Jews in New York City if anything. Zezen (talk) 14:52, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 15:49, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 15:50, 21 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep at least as far as I can see. New York City certainly has a notable Jewish population and history. On the face of it, I'm not seeing why this list is "less than useless" and not a viable list per Category:Lists of American Jews and the underpopulated main List of American Jews. The nominator's argument that is useless, less than useless, completely useless and why does it matter etc just doesn't add up to a compelling argument, for me. As for the concern that this list could grow to thousands of names, WP:LISTPEOPLE does provide parameters for how people are included in standalone lists. And of course WP:NOTPAPER applies. Now, as with all lists and categories of people by religion we'd need to be careful that we're not adding names where Jewishness is not cited reliably in the article. And the sock puppetry is a concern. But I don't see a compelling reason to delete. I don't agree that Listcruft applies in this case, in fact, the nominated list would seem to be a valid example of a standalone list according to that short essay. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:07, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment Yes, of course New York and its Jewry are well established. And there already are articles aplenty on the topic. This adds nothing of value, is not even close to the scope that is necessary for the topic; it is poorly written and researched and cited. It is obviously an 11-year-old's vanity project just so he could say "I made an article on Wikipedia", which is exactly what his defense of the deletion was. Many of the entries are not from New York in the first place.
 * I see well if the list is so fundamentally flawed, then I guess WP:TNT could apply. I have to say I don't think we should be using terms like "11-year-old's vanity project." There are people of all ages who are creating content here because they find it rewarding and we should not be singling out minors for scorn when they do that. That said, I see he has been blocked and I've removed my keep !vote, though if someone wanted to recreate such a list later I think it could be a very valid ist. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 00:31, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:08, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment Article creator has been blocked, as well as a sock and an IP, now using IP to delete this topic entirely as well as the deletion notice on other non-encyclopedic article Mandel Brothers. JesseRafe (talk) 18:59, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 01:53, 23 November 2015 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 01:29, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - Held over twice?!?! Really??? While a history of the Jews of New York City is easily, easily over the GNG bar, what we have here is an uncompletable list with uncertain inclusion parameters. Carrite (talk) 16:05, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete and agree with nominator. Also note: WP:NOTDIRECTORY; Listcruft; WP:INDISCRIMINATE; WP:MADEUP; and Libel is a strong possibility in instances when subjects deny, hide, dislike or oppose any mention, in spite of verified information, of themselves as being "Jews" or "Jewish" or having any connections with Judaism in any way. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 09:31, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete NPOV list, identifying many who do not declare or even have an objective Jewish identity as such. Awful citation as well. AddMore der Zweite (talk) 12:55, 4 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.