Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Jews in the media


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was delete. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;   &spades;  23:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

List of Jews in the media
Non-maintainable and not highly useful list (what is the media and to what locale if any is this restricted?) SM247 05:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete It's not even a very good list of Jews in the Media. Artw 05:57, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment The history indicates it is a recreate and may therefore be eligible for speedy deletion (though I couldn't find it in the log). In any case, it could be used as a vehicle for anti-semitism, I suppose. --Chaser T 06:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment The obviously necessary and desirable objective of keeping WP free of anti-Semitism isn't even what I had in mind - this is just a poor list. But seconded. SM247 06:08, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * See Talk:List of Jews in the media for the deletion, contrary to the page creators belief it was not deleted but moved to List of Jews in literature and journalism see for the first edit.  Redirect to List of Jews in literature and journalism.-- blue  520  06:20, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep/Merge I'd like to respond to some of these comments if I may... it is maintainable and it is very useful, given the emphasis on Israel in American foreign policy. I agree it is not as exhaustive a list as I would like but it is a beginning, it would help if organizations like The New York Times (as an example) would release the names and ethnicity of their editors, for instance.  Whether or not something is potentially a vehicle for anti-Semitism isn't relevant, unless you can cite official Wikipedia policy on this for me.  Moreover, anti-Semitism isn't as clear cut a topic as many of you would like it to be.  As for the list being moved previously, this appears to be false, it appears to have been recreated from scratch and now excludes all of those names which actually control these many news organizations, which of course is the more interesting aspect of the list.  I think that if you delete you will call more attention to this issue than if you just leave it alone.  Kirkswig 06:31, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment How is list being moved previously false? Compare this as provided by you on Talk:List of Jews in the media to this  the first edit of List of Jews in literature and journalism in relation to literature_and_journalism, what information has been deleted.-- blue  520  06:46, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment I was looking at the current page that is hosting the list, which is here . It does appear that the previous list was simply deleted (without a vote I might add) and reconstituted with fewer, less important names. Kirkswig 07:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Merge Here's the only relevant AfD discussion I could find (result: keep). I guess I mentioned potential for anti-semitism b/c I see it as a good reason to delete this article, though not valid under any wikipedia policy that I know of. Actually, IMO, none of the above are valid reasons for deletion. In light of the comment at the other AfD that this list should be carefully watched and maintained instead of deleted (I'm paraphrasing), I vote to keep and merge. --Chaser T 06:35, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. Makes about as much sense as "List of Caucasians in the NBA". -- GWO
 * Delete as per SM247. Also, I don't think a list of people in the media by ethnicity or religion, the article doesn't not indicate which, is encyclopedic. Another problem is the disagreement over who should be considered Jews, which has caused endless squabbles on other articles. -- Kjkolb 07:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per SM247. --Coredesat 09:30, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Rename to List of Jews in U.S. Media. Markb 10:06, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete as silly or bad faith list Bwithh 11:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete as unencyclopedic topic. Deli nk 12:39, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom --Arnzy (whats up?)  13:13, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per SM247. --Metropolitan90 13:43, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete this is exactly the kind of totally arbitrary, unsourced, & unverified listcruft that should not be featured on Wikipedia. Ignoring any potential for this becoming anti-semitic flamebait, this article has severe verifiability issues.  What are the criteria for inclusion?  How are we verifying that these people are Jewish?  Where are the citations/sources showing that they are either practising Jewish religion or are Jewish by descent?  What is our definition and cut-off for being considered part of the "Media" for purposes of this article?  This just lists news personalities and CEOs.  Where are the musicians, actors, directors, painters, poets, & authors who could all be considered part of the mass media?  I can find at least 4 sources that claim I am a member of the so-called "Jewish Media", do I get added (even though I am not a member of the media... or Jewish)?  There are just to many problems with this type of list for it to ever be encyclopedic... and compare it to a list that is actually done right, with sourcing and verification:  List of Jewish American journalists.--Isotope23 13:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment The issues raised here are no different from those affecting any other list of individuals by religion or ethnicity. Previous AfD have concluded however that despite these concerns the lists should stay.  If we delete this list on baseless grounds then we should delete them all, should we not?  Kirkswig 20:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment any arbitrary list that does not WP:V it's claims from reliable sources should be deleted, whether it is about ethnicity, religion, physical attributes, etc. This isn't baseless; this is policy.  I again point you to List of Jewish American journalists, which is an example of how a list should be done: defined scope and exhaustive citations sourcing every entry.--Isotope23 17:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment I was correct. The issues you raise here are baseless, one only need to observe how you are now deleting the entries I am making into the list that you proposed I move these entries to. Kirkswig 21:22, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete as per the argument directly above. --Strothra 15:57, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep information is power. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.245.32.76 (talk • contribs)
 * Delete Isotope persuaded me. None of this is verified. --Chaser T 17:28, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment Again it seems we are applying a different standard to this list than we do other such lists, unless of course the vote is that we delete ALL of these lists, but since we've already had that AfD vote... Kirkswig 20:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * If this other list didn't exist, I might not say delete, but this is a subject of obvious and high potential for controversy. That there is another list with verifying sources persuades me that there is no point in having this list, and strict enforcement of WP:V is warranted. --Chaser T 19:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I invite you to tune in and watch as I try to move these entries over, complete with sources. Kirkswig 06:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know why you would do such a thing since the consensus here seems to be delete, not merge. It seems like a good way to start a fight.--Chaser T 17:24, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't understand. Surely I am not to be prevented from contributing content to a page.  So what if some of the content comes from this page?  The content *was* wrongly deleted after all. Kirkswig 20:02, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry. Apparently my brain didn't process the "complete with sources" part. As long as you're meeting the definitional restrictions of the list for "Jew" and whatever profession, you'd probably be fine.--Chaser T 21:58, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Please do take a look at the new list. Please note how I am following Isotopes recommendations _to the letter_, sourcing each entry (despite the fact that no other list of Jews I can find is held to such a standard) and still it is not good enough. Kirkswig 21:25, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete as per Isotope23 and SM247. Strong arguments for action. -- Evanx  (tag?) 17:56, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator, et al. --William Pietri 20:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per Isotope23. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete &mdash; Normally an AfD of this nature would be raising red flags for me, but in this case the title is a poor categorization. So it makes sense to delete (or at least subdivided into a more sensible organization). Thanks. &mdash; RJH (talk) 23:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Weak delete per RJH. I also have some question as how one would define "media" -- aren't actors/singers/artists, etc. media. It seems that the list is geared toward "news or pseudo news" which seems consistent with a questionable POV, but I won't go there (too far). Carlossuarez46 00:39, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. What is "the media"? For that matter, what is a "Jew" in the context of this list? (A religious practitioner? To what extent? Or just a certain ancestry?) Lots of problems, and this is a magnet for the whole "Zionist conspiracy" thing as well. Grand  master  ka  05:01, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep This list should be reformatted and edited, but is otherwise useful and encyclopedic. As an Italian-American, I would be proud to be on a list of famous Italian-Americans. --66.139.221.232 05:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.