Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Kannada songs recorded by K. J. Yesudas


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Randykitty (talk) 22:41, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

List of Kannada songs recorded by K. J. Yesudas

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Fails WP:NLIST. Note that WP:NOTDATABASE applies. Few, if any, tracks pass WP:NMUSIC. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 10:04, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music, Lists,  and India. Shellwood (talk) 11:25, 24 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep - perfectly notable as a list, nowhere an "indiscriminate collection of information". Could only be relevant if WP decided that no list of recorded songs could have a place here. Otherwise it just needs expansion and proper sourcing, not deletion. Most of the films already have enough references and the songs may be traced upon searching on the web. Abbasulu (talk) 11:18, 25 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep - I don't quite understand this nomination - the list is sourced, and is not as excessive (considering the fact that sometimes the claim was that are too many of them). WP:NOTDATABASE does not apply here. It is not a database, it is a list, a legitimate one, just like every list of recorded songs by other singers. Other than that, the notability of the songs as suggested by the nominator isn't as important (in lists of works, no requirement exists for all the works to be notable - the subject is more notable, as per WP:NLIST: "the individual items in the list do not need to be independently notable") - fact is, by the way the majority of films are notable, so actually NFILM might be more suitable than NMUSIC. Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  11:26, 27 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete No effective sourced. Indiscrimate list of information that fails WP:V, WP:NLIST and WP:SIGCOV. Copy and paste article.   scope_creep Talk  14:03, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: See above comment. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (Talk) 17:01, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I closed this discussion as "no consensus", with the following closure statement. I believe this statement still applies, but rather than waste community time there just to reopen these, I'm relisting it. I'm copying my closure statement as I feel the commentary is relevant. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:00, 2 February 2023 (UTC) "This is one of several AfDs I have now read where virtually identical !votes have been posted by multiple parties that leave the discussion evenly divided. Those advocating deletion correctly argue that NLIST needs to be met; those arguing to keep correctly argue that discographies of notable artists have generally been treated as notable, and that individual items don't have to be notable for a list to have a Wikipedia article, so NMUSIC is generally not relevant. I don't see how repeating this discussion any number of times is a productive exercise; we clearly need to have a wider discussion about what criteria we use to evaluate the notability of such discographies, and probably use a few bundled nominations to make the discussion more efficient. As such I'm closing those nominations in today's log that are clearly divided on this basis with this identical statement, which seems fitting given the identical discussions. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:22, 1 February 2023 (UTC)"
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 21:42, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Since I have been sucked into this mess, I decided to research one of the articles being discussed. Here, I am a keep and prune to sourceable entries. The singer is, by all accounts, a household name: he has received India's second highest civilian award. More importantly, his music as a body of work has received plenty of coverage, this and a "History of Indian Cinema" by Renu Saran (I'm unable to link to it because the spam blacklist appears to be blocking a google-books result) being just the quickest examples I could find. LISTN is met. Furthermore, K. J. Yesudas discography is a large article, and merging this there isn't reasonable for length reasons; so keeping this is the only option. That said; there are probably 30-50,000 songs being discussed here, and I'm not sure that listing all of them is reasonable, per NOTDIR; so I would suggest restricting the scope to songs that can be sourced to non-database sources. Even with that restriction, individual entries should not be difficult to source; the music of major films typically gets substantive coverage in the news media. Finally, if the list is pruned and it turns out length is not a barrier, I don't object to a merger. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:20, 2 February 2023 (UTC) Striking source found to be unreliable. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:57, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I think you are taking all this too seriously. These "discussions" have nothing whatever to do with whether the information (or part of it) can be included and so improve the encyclopedia. It is simply people taking pot shots at each other in a way that seems to me pretty harmless. Whether the articles get deleted or not will be mostly arbitrary but this will make little difference to anything overall. These discussions simply do not matter. Thincat (talk) 18:07, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, are you saying editors shouldn't do research when participating in discussions at AfD? Why are you here, then? Vanamonde (Talk) 18:57, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * No, I wasn't saying that but, on your second question, my remark wasn't constructive and it would have been better if I hadn't said anything at all. These days I hardly ever contribute at AfD. When I do it is when there seems to me to be a significant issue. Thincat (talk) 19:22, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete all per nom and per User:scope_creep. BD2412  T 02:47, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Albums and songs, Lists,  and India.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:09, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete - These "list of songs recorded by (artist)" articles are supposed to function similarly to WP:NAV templates, so when you've got a massive list of songs with no article of their own, and little context, it defeats the purpose. The article is 100% unlinked song titles and about 99% unsourced, so it lacks much of a function beyond name dropping a ton of songs titles without any real context. Not opposed to draftifying if someone plans on taking it on, but I don't particularly expect that to happen organically in the article space, considering how stagnant it was in its 6 months of existence, and now its primary contributor and creator is indeffed too. Sergecross73   msg me  17:56, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - largely as per Vanamonde. I wasn't going to !vote here but the above is so odd that I feel obliged to. Yesudas is an extremely notable singer; this does meet NLIST; NDATABASE doesn't apply; AfD is not cleanup. Ingratis (talk) 12:40, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * This is not a discussion on the notability of Yesudas though, it's a discussion on whether or not this unsourced, poorly conceived list article was necessary. Your stance as is veers into WP:NOTINHERITED territory. Sergecross73   msg me  13:08, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * It is definitely not inherited notability; we're not arguing for the notability of individual songs, but of his body of work, which isn't in question. I'm recommending pruning this list to entries for which context can be provided, but the list itself is quite appropriate. Vanamonde (Talk) 16:46, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment - as this looks like it'll be kept, it might be best to merge this article with List of Hindi songs recorded by K. J. Yesudas into a new article called List of songs recorded by K. J. Yesudas with all of the unverifiable stuff removed, which will be the majority of it. My concern is WP:V. Where did the people building this article actually get all of the content from and was the source reliable? We don't know. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:06, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I would support such a merger. If we are pruning to songs with verifiable information from secondary sources, as we should, length should no longer be an issue. If it is, re-splitting shouldn't be difficult. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:16, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It'll be hard to justify conceptually keeping some of these lists and not others when they all seem to have the same arguments for and against them, and really only varies slightly in participants. Sergecross73   msg me  19:36, 16 February 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.