Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Messianic Jews and Hebrew Christians


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete. Sr13 09:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

List of Messianic Jews and Hebrew Christians

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Topic before the names is discussed in other articles. But the main problem is the list of names. Most of them are unnoteable and do not have WP articles. They just have links to their personal websites and/or books that they are selling. In addition, a lot of the names listed are living persons, hence being listed there violates WP:BLP Yeshivish 06:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC) Retain - there are some great Jewish names in here and just because they don't fit into the framework of either the rabbis or of many Christians that is no reason to delete them! Delete. Most aren't notable the list is only there to try say there is a lot of messianic jews and christian hebrews i could list every crackpot with a website who believes in holocaust denial to try to make it seem as though there is many who believe that delusion stop spreading lies --Java7837 18:55, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletions.   —רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 06:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete No stated standards for inclusion. Propaniac 13:02, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€  15:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Way, way too many redlinks. Seems like a way to get people into WP who otherwise wouldn't qualify as notable. Better served as a category. Realkyhick 18:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete the BLP concerns are very great. Jon513 19:21, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Pure listcruft. Blueboy96 20:40, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete talk about indiscriminate... VanTucky  (talk) 22:07, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 01:22, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete this pointless propaganda and violation of WP:NOT until such time as clearer criteria and reliable biographies and biographical information is available. IZAK 04:48, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator and IZAK. --Redaktor 10:01, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per all of the above - listcruft, WP:SOAP, red links, etc. Oy vey! Bearian 19:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per all of the above - listcruft, WP:SOAP, red links, etc. Oy vey! Bearian 19:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep: I originally compiled the nucleus of this list. I don't feel strongly enough about it to fight for it, but I do believe that we need some consistent rules here.  If this list is deleted, similar lists should be.  If similar lists are retained, this one should be.  I realize that the issue is an emotional one to many people, but most topics have an emotional side to somebody or other.  Just because we are naming members of a religious community that many Jews, and some Christians, reject, is not a good enough reason to exclude it from Wikipedia.  Wikipedia, after all, is supposed to be neutral. David Cannon 10:43, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I, personally, have no objection to the list because it includes Messianic Jews and Hebrew Christians; I object to it because it has no listed standards for inclusion. This list could be amended with every single member of every single congregation for this faith. If it were a list of Messianic Jews and Hebrew Christians who were notable within that faith, and included explicit and objective standards for determining whether someone meets that description and could be included, and provided reliable sources that the people on the list met those standards, I would almost certainly vote to keep it. Propaniac 13:22, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Then what say we amend the list and restrict it to individuals who have biographies in Wikipedia? Persons who are not notable do not have, or at any rate ought not to have, a biographical article on Wikipedia.  I'll take the initiative and remove from the list all the red links. Hopefully, the article will then qualify. David Cannon 04:07, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Since you brought up the Holocaust, I feel that I really should mention that many "Hebrew Christians" were among its victims. (I don't know about "Messianic Jews", I don't think that movement was very popular yet.) Steve Dufour 01:46, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep: In total agreement with David Cannon


 * Delete Messianic Jews and Hebrew Christians are two totally different things. I am speaking from a Christian point of view, BTW.  Steve Dufour 00:54, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Just my two cents' worth. From my own experience, there are some branches of Christianity that are VERY close to some branches of Messianic Judaism, and some that are almost polar opposites.  But either way, I don't see how this matters to this list - it is NOT a discussion of Messianic or Christian theology, but a list of individuals who associate themselves with one of the two movements. David Cannon 04:07, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll raise you two more cents. :-)  The way I have heard the expression "Hebrew Christian" used would be for a person born and raised Jewish (hence a "Hebrew") who converts to Christianity and joins a main-stream Christian church.  Most of the time I have heard the expression come up is because the person in question is advocating that other Jews also convert.

A "Messianic Jew" on the other hand is not a Christian, in the normal sense the word "Christian" is used. They follow the practices of Judaism while believing in Jesus as the Messiah. As Christianity developed it rejected Messianic Judaism, and in fact persecuted it so that the movement passed away and was only restarted in modern times.

So to me it doesn't make much sense to put the two things on the same list. Other people may disagree of course. Steve Dufour 04:27, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.