Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Muslim soldiers


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep.  MBisanz  talk 00:15, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

List of Muslim soldiers

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Baseless, and pointless topic. Most people in the talk page seem to think it should be deleted. I also feel the same way. Rsrikanth05 (talk) 07:30, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 17:52, 9 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep, with caveats- List as it stands is overly broad. Perhaps trim out the 1900s and rename List of historic Muslim military figures. A central list of historic figures would be easily maintained and verified. Problems come in when we start talking about modern Muslim military figures. So, create a different page called List of modern Muslim military figures. If that needs to come back to AfD, so be it, but there is no reason to throw out the easily salvageable parts of the list. SMSpivey (talk) 18:27, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Procedural - there was a previous AfD of this article that resulted in a keep. SMSpivey (talk) 18:28, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Keep  As a general rule, every category  should support a  list also if people are willing to make them. Some people prefer categories, and they do have their unique uses, but that is no reason to remove navigational devices that other people find useful. As a list gives associated information, such as the military conflicts involved s, it provides more information than a category ever  could. I did some cleanup. Dividing the list might be reasonable, and could be discussed separately. As should be needless to say, it doesn't violate NOTDIRECTORY, for it lists only the notable 0.001% or so with wp articles (or red links qualified for them). What "baseless' or "pointless" means in this context i cannot determine. DGG (talk) 03:26, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Spivefy Sceptre (talk) 18:37, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment haha, sure, I can do it. SMSpivey (talk) 18:50, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Conditional Keep The article is encyclopedic, but it needs a cleaner title (perhaps "List of historical Islamic military leaders"...or something better) and focused editing. But I don't agree with the argument for deleting it -- it is not baseless or pointless. Pastor Theo (talk) 00:14, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete violates WP:NOTDIRECTORY --Mhking (talk) 00:16, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - there is no definition of "Muslim soldier" that will satisfy even the majority of users. Deb (talk) 12:46, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I just think creating a category instead would be better. Or else son, you'll have a List of Hindu Soldiers and List of Christian soldiers, and soon Wikipedia would become a Wiki-battlefeld of religions. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 06:14, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The thing is, the title of the article should certainly be changed to something less inflammatory. Once that happens, there shouldn't be a problem with articles like List of historical Christian military figures, etc. It is an encyclopedic and logical list that could be expanded to include a ton of contextual text. SMSpivey (talk) 00:56, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I just realised that there is a list of Hindu soldiers as well, which is being well maintained. If we maintain this article equally well, and make sure terrorists are not a part of it, then it can go upto the status of a featured article. So I guess, we can close the AfD and keep the article.--Rsrikanth05 (talk) 05:56, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment I'm trying to AGF, here, and perhaps I'm a bit confused, but bear with me. So, Wikipedia is not censored, and "terrorists" will probably be added to a list of notable Muslim military figures if they are Muslim, notable, and related to military action. All of these determinations on particular individuals are independent of what we decide in this AfD or about this article. As I said before, it makes sense to change the title of the article to be less inflammatory and suggestive, but it Wikipedia generally doesn't leave out a group of people thought to be "terrorists" by another group simply for that reason. See the AfD and arguments about List of war crimes to see how everyone's voice should be heard, and tempered against one another, in a place like Wikipedia. SMSpivey (talk) 06:51, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Exactly, so lets us all pretend that this AfD never existed, and leave this article for Wikiproject Islam to pickup and maintain. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 09:59, 11 March 2009 (UTC) 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Pastor Theo (talk) 02:11, 14 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep - As a list of people selected for importance in this category and who have, or can reasonably be expected to have, their own articles, this topic satisfies the Wikipedia guideline for appropriate topics for stand-alone lists. The list includes information such as dates and reasons for prominence that may make it more useful than a category. References should be added and the list should be edited for consistent formatting, but it contributes to Wikipedia as an encyclopedia and should be kept. BRMo (talk) 04:01, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - it's a perfectly fine list, and is notable. Per DGG for most of my reasoning.  Math Cool  10  Sign here! 04:31, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep, per DGG and MathCool. -Axmann8  ( Talk )  12:52, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep but move this to a sensible title, since this article is an Officers' Club and not a place for the enlisted men. If you're making a list of "Muslim military leaders" then say so.  Mandsford (talk) 14:22, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Move to List of historic Muslim military leaders and rescope. The intersection of "Muslim" and "military leader" is, in most cases, trivial and not worthy of mention in a list. There is nothing special about the fact that a particular military leader from Iran, for instance, is a Muslim given that most Iranians are followers of Islam. What this list should contain is Muslim military leaders who are known primarily for their connection to and/or actions in the name of Islam (e.g. Saladin). –Black Falcon (Talk) 21:34, 14 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.