Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. There's still some question about whether certain specific entries should be included in the list, but those questions can be discussed on the article talk page. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:57, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent
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The list represents an indiscriminate collection of information and original research. The names appear to be random, and inclusion of some is dubious, such as: "Horst Ohrloff, German, Wehrmacht Oberleutnant, Silesian" -- is this "non-Germanic descent"? Other entries include "Germanised Slavic descent" or equally vague categorisations. Some on the list have distant non-German ancestry, such as "Hugenot descent", which seems immaterial.

One gets the impression that the entries were included because of the non-German sounding last names, such as Joachim Mrugowsky, whose ethnic background is not discussed in the linked article. At the same time, some are just foreign nationals (British, Latvian, etc), so it's unclear why "non-Germanic descent" is even relevant.

The list does not meet WP:LISTN and should be deleted. First AfD closed as No consensus in 2015, and I believe it's a good time to revisit. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:03, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete. Right at the moment, this is an article which doesn't do what it says on the tin, in that it combines assorted fascists (including the British and Belgian sorts) with Nazis, despite ostensibly being only about the latter. Per nom, it should therefore be deleted. It's possible that there might be a viable list of - for example - non-Germanic Nazis with a very strict set of criteria, but I'm running on barely any sleep and can't begin to think of how that could work, so won't advocate for it at the moment. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 05:56, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. Having seen arguments regarding how the list could be reworked, I'm generally in agreement with them. Very careful criteria will be required, though, as will be/should be sources discussing the resultant group as a group. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 22:57, 8 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep, meets notability and the phenomenon is present in reliable sources, especially regarding Jewish examples. As for accuracy disputes, entry removal, inline tags and discussion on talk suffices. The list should be edited, not deleted. --Z oupan 06:07, 8 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment pretty much a keep comment - basically a list of Nazis granted German Blood Certificate papers would work better, these papers granted exemptions to Hitlers racial laws. It should be reasonably easy to check the list to make sure all the entry’s fit this criteria, and renamed this list to something more specific to suit. This is a very relevant WWII issue, which reveals some of Hitlers own hypocrisy. It ought to be rescued, if it needs cleanup - fine - but AfD is not cleanup. Dysklyver  08:27, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Nom's comment -- There are about 8 people on the list whose Jewish descent is mentioned, out of 88 included (10%). So it's unclear to me whether or not this list is intended to solely focus on those with the German Blood Certificate papers. Other names include Chiang Wei-kuo (Chinese), Pierre Daye (Belgian Rexist); Jef François (Flemish); Martin James Monti (American); Hermann von Oppeln-Bronikowski (German); Hans-Joachim Marseille (German) -- did they also receive the German Blood Certificate? This seems doubtful.
 * The list mixes foreign nationals; German nationals with Jewish descent; Germans with Polish-sounding last names; Germans with French-sounding last names; etc. It appears random and a non-encyclopedic cross-categorisation, with unclear inclusion criteria.  K.e.coffman (talk) 20:39, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 21:02, 9 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep. Meets WP:LISTN. Accuracy issues should be addressed in article. It is possible, for many figures, to accurately state racial descent without OR. We routinely mention the ancestry of people in bios, when available in RS, which may differ from their country of citizenship - e.g. List of Italian-American actors. Determining that a non-German ancestral group is non-German is not OR for most ancestral groups.Icewhiz (talk) 06:28, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 02:04, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 04:27, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Weak keep, on notability but does need work as to "accuracy" and more RS citing. Kierzek (talk) 16:09, 12 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment. Neutral, but needs a rewrite. Many of these people were not Nazis. Serving in the Wehrmacht did not make one a Nazi. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:26, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep but purge. It might be useful to brake this up with subheadings by ethnicity, etc.  There are enough blue-links to warrant having this as a list.  Not sure that I would like it as a category.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:41, 15 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.