Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Negro League baseball players


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep per WP:SNOW. Clear consensus (non-admin closure). PeterSymonds | talk  11:45, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

List of Negro League baseball players

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Unreferenced listcruft, Negro league was not the highest level of professional ball, therefore fail WP:ATHLETE Bricksense1987 (talk) 21:57, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Speedy keep, it needs work to be more than just a list, but this is an important list of baseball history. The vast majority of these players were at the highest level that they were allowed to play at, for their time.   Corvus cornix  talk  22:05, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep Understand WP:CLS. SunCreator (talk) 22:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep
 * User Bricksense1987 is stating his opinion that "Negro league was not the highest level of professional ball" and that it fails the notability test for athletes. I am at a loss to understand this, as there are 35 names on that list in the National Baseball Hall of Fame, which confers some expert opinion that the Negro Leagues were indeed at the "highest level".
 * He also referred to the list as "listcruft", a Wikipedian term I'd never encountered before. Having looked up the word, I would argue that his description is incorrect, and would ask him to explain exactly what is "listcrufty" about the list of Negro League baseball players.  Of the eight criteria given for the term, I cannot see how it could be lumped into any of them.
 * User Corvus cornix, while agreeing that the list should be kept, has put an "unsourced" label on the article. Do we need sources for this particular article to prove each of these men were Negro League baseball players?  Each name on the list links to an individual article about the players, all of whom played in the Negro Leagues (or as men of color were forced to play on top independent black barnstorming teams before the formation of the Negro National League. It speaks for itself.
 * -- Couillaud (talk) 22:31, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, every article should be its own world when it comes to sourcing. You shouldn't expect a reader to have to hop from article to article to find sources.  Sourcing seems to have been provided now, though I haven't checked the link yet.   Corvus cornix  talk  23:49, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep It holds to the spirit of WP:CLS in that there can be an article written about the list that would make sense. Also per Couillaud's and Corvus cornix's arguments.  And, to top it off, I actually have found a source for this.  Kansas State runs both a physical and an e-Museum for the Negro Leagues.  They have not only a list of players but personal profiles for each one.  I did a pseudo-random spot check, looking at the first name, then every five names.  Each of them was on that site.  I have added that reference and removed the unreferenced template. Staeiou (talk) 22:40, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Edit: I checked every fifth name. Staeiou (talk) 22:41, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep - I agree with comments in support of keeping this article. The nominator's argument that this fails WP:ATHLETE is completely unfounded—the Negro leagues were fully professional and, as Couillaud has observed, included many of the greatest players in the history of baseball. I agree the list could use some work, and indeed over the last couple of weeks I've been gathering information to expand the list to make it more useful, by adding information such as dates and positions played (including references). It will take me a while to put this information together, so please don't expect to see dramatic changes to the list while this AfD is active, but I am working on it offline. I also note that this appears to be yet another example of a new sockpuppet created to make disruptive AfD nominations; I'm starting to observe a pattern. BRMo (talk) 22:59, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions.   —BRMo (talk) 23:04, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep. Nominator appears to be violating WP:IDONTKNOWIT  --InDeBiz1 (talk) 23:26, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep for reasons listed above. MeegsC | Talk 23:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep per all above; easily passes notability guidelines. -- Beloved Freak  23:49, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Clearly defined list, with each entry independently notable. The kind of list I like to see. Deor (talk) 00:41, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep. Contents pass notability guidelines; even the list itself is probably notable.  Nominator should have a look at WP:CLN, WP:LISTS, and our guidelines on standalone lists and consider withdrawal.  Celarnor Talk to me  00:50, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, nomination is cruftcruft. Celarnor Talk to me  00:54, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep: I would suggest, though, that more be done with this to distinguish it from Category:Negro League baseball players. Perhaps adding the years players were active would help or creating a table with the players' primary positions. Kinston eagle (talk) 01:22, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - I'm planning on doing just that—please see my coment above. BRMo (talk) 02:01, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep given the climate of the times, it was the highest level of professional baseball for these players. DarkAudit (talk) 03:52, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Others have stated the reasons.--Cube lurker (talk) 04:04, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep I don't understand the list criteria but by virtue of their skin colour, this was the highest level most athletes were eligible to play at in the time they played (not counting those who later played in MLB following Jackie Robinson in 1947). I think people could easily come looking for a list of Negro League players and this directs them further to the players' individual articles. WP:USEFUL? Probably but I think it applies in this case. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 04:42, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep: I agree with what has been already been said above. --Borgardetalk 05:54, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Are you serious? Did you sleep through class in fourth grade when they talked about how important the Negro Leagues were in the past, and that as much as these players would have loved to go higher in professional baseball, they couldn't? Mind you many writers do consider the Leagues on keel with MLB at this point. I'm baffled the nominator even thought about bringing this to nomination; the notability is extremely clear, and any issues (which are small) will easily be dealt with by others to assert the notability.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 06:58, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment I think I'm detecting some snow in this sector. Celarnor Talk to me  07:09, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.