Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Nintendo games created by Shigeru Miyamoto


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep or "nomination withdrawn", take your pick (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

List of Nintendo games created by Shigeru Miyamoto

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Purely unsourced information pertaining to a biographical subject, and therefore fails WP:N and WP:BLP. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 20:01, 7 May 2009 (UTC) Withdrawn. While I still stand by my point that this list needs urgent sourcing, even I'm going to admit this was a bit rash. For now, I'm going to agree with the unanimity in keeping the article for now to give time for sources to be added. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 17:09, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep or merge to Shigeru Miyamoto. My inclination is to the former.  This is no different than a list of a director's films.  The information is easily verifiable. Drawn Some (talk) 20:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not verified, though. There is absolutely no threshold at which content violating WP:BLP should be accepted on Wikipedia, so unless it can be verified, and soon, it should be deleted. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 20:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I understand your concern. Yesterday I added references to an almost-15,000 byte biographical article that was started on April 3, 2003 and still didn't have a single reference. I suggest that you could better spend your time trying to find references than trying to get something deleted that you must know won't be. Drawn Some (talk) 20:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletion discussions. MrKIA11 (talk) 20:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep This information is verifiable. - Ret.Prof (talk) 20:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh my God, yes, it's a list of VIDEO GAMES! This can be very, very harmful to someone who's been a video game designer since the 1970s! WE MUST SPEEDILY DELETE IT NOW BECAUSE IT'S UNSOURCED!!!!!!!! Seriously though, how hard would it be to verify this list anyway? It's a list of games created by a very notable video game creator. What's so harmful about it that it can't just be fixed up? Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Many otters • One hammer • HELP) 20:23, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If it's verifiable, why hasn't it been verified? "It is verifiable" is far from enough to comply with WP:BLP. Any and all unsourced information relating to biographical subjects should be removed ASAP, no matter how non-libellous the information seems. As I stated, there is no threshold at which unsourced bio information is acceptable, even if it seems easily verifiable. This should be either verified or deleted, and soon. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 20:32, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I see nothing that says that all unsourced BLP info should be removed ASAP. Otherwise, every single unsourced biography article would get yanked before anyone would even get a chance to source it. There is a source in the article, but at the same time, there's no rush unless it's harmful. At least that's how I've been interpreting things. Indeed, the "refimprove BLP" tag says "Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous or harmful." It only addresses contentious material, which a list of video games usually isn't. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Many otters • One hammer • HELP) 20:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "whether the material is negative, positive, or just questionable". Via its lack of sources, it's certainly "questionable". The real world can and will judge very differently to us what qualifies as "contentious". Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 20:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Prefer a merge with Shigeru Miyamoto as that article's not really that long. The work of one of the most influential video game designers out there is clearly notable, and this is a useful list. As for verifiability, wouldn't this be fairly trivially verifiable from the game credits if nothing else? See for example assuming GameSpot's a reliable source for game credits (I think it is, no doubt someone from WP:WPVG with more experience sourcing game articles would know where to go for sure). I doubt it'd take too long, I'd do it myself if I wasn't buried under finals week work... BryanG (talk) 21:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Per 10lb. It really shouldn't be that hard to verify, and there is nothing wrong with it pertaining to a biographical subject. Tavix | Talk  22:09, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes there is, the fact that it is all unsourced, per WP:BLP. We shouldn't keep potentially libellous information just because we think there's potential in improving it. If it's "verifiable", it shouldn't be present until verified. As it stands, this has been around for far too long (over 4 years) and I'm failing to see why it is so "verifiable" when only one source has turned up in that time. If consensus dictates to keep it, then it should be promptly and wholly backed up by reliable sources or otherwise deleted. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 22:26, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * How is the material potentially libelous? Drawn Some (talk) 23:00, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's unsourced, and that's enough. We shouldn't keep content solely on the basis that we think it's verifiable. If it is, then the necessary sources should be presented here and now to prove that it's verifiable; i.e., to verify it. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 23:10, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep Pertinent to the parent article, meets WP:N even on its own, and the WP:V issue can be fixed easily. --Patar knight - chat/contributions 01:06, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * How does it meet WP:N? There are no sources. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 01:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It undoubtably has the potential to meet WP:N. Just because there are no sources in the article, does not mean that sources are not around, and in the case of this article, there should be plenty. Of course, the title is pretty amiguous and should be changed, since created is pretty broad. Other parts of the article will also have to be culled, if unsourced. --Patar knight - chat/contributions 01:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Some sources:, , , , , from a quick Google news search.--Patar knight - chat/contributions 01:54, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep – reference with verifiable sources, which are out there. We are not dealing with defamatory material, nor anything potentially libelous or slanderous, so I am unconvinced of any BLP violation. Per WP:DEL, we delete articles per WP:V when it cannot possibly be sourced—this is not the case. MuZemike 03:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Definitely needs sources, but listing the accomplishments of an analog to say, Martin Scorscese or Norman Lear in their fields is nothing harmful at all. He's made alot of games and this is a helpful list which provides another alternative to listing them within text. I would also recommend a rename to remove 'Nintendo' from the title, since his entire career was spent with the company; that they are all Nintendo games can be listed in the lede.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 05:49, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * comment At least, the title should be changed or the article should be merged into Shigeru Miyamoto. it is a list that shows games whose development he took part in, and the list includes games for which he did almost nothing. and the title can give the wrong impression that the games listed are directed by him while in fact he mostly works on games as a producer. the title should be changed to List of Nintendo games whose development Shigeru Miyamoto took part in or like that. but after all it is the best this artcle is removed becaused the article has almost no sources and souces are not given for a very long time.--Thisgift (talk) 06:06, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep or merge. The information isn't defaming the person or negative in any other ways. Therefore it is not the sort of thing BLP was created for. Things like this should only be deleted as a last resort (Deletion policy) when there's proof it cannot be verified. The nominator does not appear to have done any such checking. - Mgm|(talk) 09:51, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's accrediting his name to the creation of dozens of games without any proof via reliable sources to back them up, and is therefore a WP:BLP violation. As WP:BLP states, "Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons—whether the material is negative, positive, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." We should not retain any unsourced biographical information just because we think we can source it—it should be removed from Wikipedia immediately until clearly reliable sources are found and directly cited. We should be applying a zero-tolerance policy to potential libel at all times, and, frankly, this "I don't think it's defamatory" attitude doesn't comply with that. None of us here are Shigeru Miyamoto and therefore have no idea what he will think. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 18:10, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In what way is this material contentious? -- Whpq (talk) 18:14, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * How is it not contentious? There are certainly no reliable sources to back it up, so it is very well "questionable" per WP:BLP. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 18:23, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Contentious is not the same as unverified. -- Whpq (talk) 19:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep or at least merge. A list of games created by one of the most renowned people in the field is a question for whether a stand-alone article or a section in his article the most appropriate way to house it.  There is no BLP violation in having a list of his works even without references.  Note that we have BLP unreferenced and BLP refimprove tags for a reason.  If there is a particular unverified entry in the list that is defamatory, then it can be removed through article editting. -- Whpq (talk) 14:07, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. Per BryanG, is GameSpot reliable? If so, I can research/compile these. Venividiwplwiki (talk) 20:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, Gamespot is reliable per WikiProject Video games/Sources. --Patar knight - chat/contributions 21:49, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep If its verifiable, it should be verified/tagged requesting such, not just deleted. Taelus (talk) 05:59, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep This is a notable categorization of games, and his authorship is verifiable. I mean, come on, just like at this article in GamePro. Not every game designer should get a list like this, but this is a case where a ton of sources point to producing an article exactly like this one. Randomran (talk) 17:01, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.