Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2013


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Cindy  ( talk ) 00:19, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2013

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Articles for deletion/List of Israeli Violations of the Ceasefire of 21 November, 2013 (2nd nomination) is likely to end in deletion. It has been pointed out by at least one editor that that is a tad one-sided; deleting the Israeli attacks while leaving the Palestinian ones. He's right: this article is largely a laundry list of non-notable events, and in reality is hardly different from the one that is about to be deleted; save for belligerent. Wikipedia is not a place for delineating every single rocket fired in a conflict; a better use of Wikipedia space on either side of the conflict would be to say "BLAH party fired BLAH rockets in the month/year of BLAH and no one was hurt". There is precious little coverage in the article from non-Israeli or non-Palestinian sources. Note that I have neither contributed to the content of this article, nor any other Israeli-Palestinian article. My only involvement is in the linked AfD; which I also voted delete in  p  b  p  22:45, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:19, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:19, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:19, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:19, 1 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep The article is well-referenced and is part of an important list covering Palestinian rocket attacks, like this one.--Sheilub (talk) 01:24, 1 June 2013 (UTC) Blocked sockpuppet of AndresHerutJaim.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 15:48, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. The article is well-sourced and does not use contentious labels like the lists of violations do. --1ST7 (talk) 01:52, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Well, I'm unininvoled, too, and I don't see why there can't be encyclopedic coverage of this topic. The nom says that the article is a "tad one-sided; deleting the Israeli attacks while leaving the Palestinian ones."  Then simply create an article about such attacks, or merge the two together.  The nom says that this is a "list of non-notable events".  Individual items on a list need not be independently notable.  See WP:N.  The nom says, "Wikipedia is not a place for delineating every single rocket fired in a conflict."  If editors want more stricter inclusion criteria, this can be worked out on the talk page.  The nom says that there is, "precious little coverage in the article from non-Israeli or non-Palestinian sources."  I'm not sure if they mean the article suffers from a bias of Israeli and Palestinian sources, or they are trying to say that the rest of the world doesn't think that this important.  Either way, that's not a valid reason to delete the article.  A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:58, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Merge. That a dysfunctional tilt in wiki articles like this exists is the main problem. I see nothing wrong with such lists, save for the fact that (a) it is relatively easy to main-source attacks on Israel -they get intense coverage abroad, but quite difficult to find RS for attacks where Palestinians or their infrastructure are casualties (WP:systemic bias). We are deleting en masse the Palestinian articles, but none of the Israeli articles will lose out in the Adf process. (b) the Israel/victim pages show the vice of using 'Palestinians' instead of 'Palestinian militant'. (Imagine the obverse, if one wrote 'Israelis' bombed a Palestinian refugee camp' etc. It's the IDF that does that, a group or institution. That usage is a clear violation of WP:NPOV, involving ethnic stereotyping and collective blame. (This article also adds shameful colour by mentioning Shavuot festivities being disturbed by 'Palestinians' etc). The answer is to have articles representing the comparable lists for both sides 'Israeli/Palestinian attacks' per year, astringently neutral. Otherwise articles on this from neither side should be permitted, since they are being abused by image-manipulation, and this one looks like anything you can  get out of an Israeli government website.Nishidani (talk) 10:42, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I might add that, technically, these impressive lists are vitiated by a category error. The Israeli/Palestinian assaults concern, overwhelmingly, incidents of military conflict between an army and small groups of clandestine militants, and systematically exclude most of the evidence of unilateral (often mysterious or unprovoked) material assaults by Israeli military forces on individual Palestinian families and residences in the territories under occupation, which, normally, have taken place several times a week over the last decades. Take this episode, one of the rare ones reported in mainstream papers, recounted with bewildered and harrowing detail in yesterday's Haaretz. Incidents like these are in one POV (Palestinians) military assaults on civilians, yet they do not figure. They're negligable small fry.Nishidani (talk) 12:06, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Merge into the planned NPOV compliant article(s) that won't suffer from sampling bias (see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration/Current_Article_Issues). If that means keeping for now, fine, but it is just a matter of time before the content from these articles is moved into neutral articles and these rocket attack articles are deleted. The only practical benefit of these articles is that they attract dishonest people who use sockpuppetry, which helps to identify the people who unethically break the rules, exploit a charity and damage the reputation of Israel supporters and Israel. I assume those people will still have an uncontrollable compulsion to edit the replacement neutral articles so it will still be possible to see their footprints.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 04:04, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep There are reliable sources covering each instance. It is quite encyclopedic to list information that has a significant effect on things.   D r e a m Focus  10:21, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Merge although each event can be cited to a reliable source, WP:NOTNEWS comes to mind. It's unfortunate that these rocket attacks have almost become routine, but it appears to be the case. The content can be merged in a summarized form of prose in a related article like Palestinian rocket attacks on_Israel, or elsewhere, but is there really a need to document each and every attack in a list? If so, then since we can verify each servicemember and contractor killed during Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom, we should have those lists as well; yet, I remember that those were deleted.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 17:47, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Such lists (like the one I created: List of drone strikes in Pakistan) clearly help research efforts (if they are accurate and well-documented). Jason from nyc (talk) 21:57, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Merge per RightCowLeftCoast, subject to re-creation or userfication if the article issues really can be fixed. Bearian (talk) 18:21, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep per Dream Focus and Jason from NYC. Notable subject, with reliable sources. Plot Spoiler (talk) 01:26, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep - A simple list without a POV or indepth detail seems reasonable. The year is not even half over, so for current and historical use, it seems worth keeping for reasons listed above. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 02:21, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep - This is an article that simply lists each event of a given type. It is an invaluable resource for the subject to have all this information in one place.User:Guest 12:06, 7 June 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.140.3.35 (talk)
 * Delete per WP:NOTNEWSPAPER. Unfortunately, rocket attacks against Israel are a routine occurrence, and documenting every one of them is beyond the scope of a general encyclopedia. --BDD (talk) 23:34, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.